SnG Grinders, please give me some tips and fix my leaks. STT Video.

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RamdeeBen

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Hello,

Due to frustrating results and general frustration with my late stage play I decided I was going to load up one table and record it to then put on you tube for people who are willing to give me tips and point out my leaks and the way I played. Some bad decisions I think on my part.

I made it because I've recently made some threads with regards to pushing with <<10bbs and how much I seem to bust out when I don't need to do.

Ironically I ended up winning the table but I know there are probably some questionable plays from my part and hands I played badly or just should never of played to start with. I kind of recognise this but there also probably plays I thought was good enough yet you might well think are completely wrong, so again this would be great if you could point it out.

I'd appreciate any comments and feedback be it positive or negative to maybe improve on my game as this is my intention to fix some of probably many leaks I have and "maybe" give me more of an edge in future.

I'm usually a MTT SnG player so this isn't usual game but still I guess my game is somewhat similar.

The video is around 38mins (turbo) STT.


Please forgive me if I seem to dribble on a bit as I'm not used to talking about my play and trying to talk about justifying a call/raise or putting someone on a range of hands.

Anyway here is the link and would appreciate it if anyone could watch it and post some feedback. Because of the length of the video I've had to put it in 2 parts as the length of the video is to long to upload as one part. Even though 38minutes isn't exactly long, anyway never mind!
Cheers..

PS: The video starts of in sync with the sound but for some reason, probably due to compressing with the wrong format it goes out of sync by about 2-3seconds, so again please forgive! I'd re compress but it would be another 2/3hours of doing it so with it being only a minor 2 secs I hope it isn't to frustrating.

pps: Would be great to see your input Poker orifice..

YouTube - STT Turbo Part 1

YouTube - STT Turbo Part2

YouTube - STT Turbo Part3
 
cjatud2012

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the video appears to be broken, or something.
 
cjatud2012

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oh okay they look good now.

Will try to watch these after I eat!
 
cjatud2012

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notes from the first video:

AK - seems fine, flop bet maybe a bit big but it's fine
85 - fold
AQ - fold is probably okay
63 - fold
83 - fold
T9 - raise smaller, helps you get away from a shove, not sure if I'd call... also look at stack sizes before deciding to steal, if you'll have the odds to call a 3-bet but you won't be happy about it, not a good spot to steal
AQ - raise smaller
99 - yeah, I think if you're gonna call it pre you have to float the flop there. Your pre-flop call being profitable will depend on you being able to take away the pot away post-flop. otherwise fold pre
A6 - fold is good
A3 - fold
Q9 - usually fold this pre. almost never raise. also it's not really "good" that he
folded necessarily, I mean if he folded JJ that's good, but if he folded 77 then that's bad.
J7 - fold
92 - fold
K7 - fold
JJ - raise to 250 imo
J9 - you can't eliminate AA or KK from his range here, just sayin
QT - yup, good fold.
82 - fold, nice quads lol
87 - fold is fine
93 - fold
QJ - easy fold imo
T3 - check/fold, pretty easy obv

starting the 2nd video now!
 
OzExorcist

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Only been able to watch the first bit - will come back and have a look at the rest later but here's some thoughts on one of the early hands:

T9s @ 25/15, 4:00 in

I don't like this. First off we can start by raising smaller, say 2.5x to save chips the times you get three-bet and have to fold. That goes across the board once you get to about 25-50 blinds, BTW, not just for this hand.

Against full stacks in the blinds I'm happy to steal here but given the SB only has 700ish AND he's probably steaming from getting sucked out on a few hands earlier I think there's a good chance we get three-bet shoved on here. I'd rather avoid that situation by just folding and waiting a round to see how this villain is gonig to play his short stack.

As played we're about 42-59 against a range like 22+ / Ax / KJ+ and chipEV on a call is pretty much even. I probably just fold and conserve the chips since it's only really a medium pot that's unlikely to be a game changer. Avoiding the spot altogether would have been preferable though.

And FWIW we're 54-46 against ATC in this spot but even a steaming player probably isn't shoving ATC here.
 
cjatud2012

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Second video feedback:

Q5 - I probably fold if it's folded to us, if effective stacks were ~10bb's we could shove but I wouldn't be a fan of open raising it.
Q6 - same thing, good fold.
42 - fold
95 - fold
92 - pretty much a must-fold. remember too the last time he min-raised he had KK.
74 - would be a decent spot to squeeze if our hand weren't garbage. With JTs I'm
pretty sure I'm squeezing. and don't be results oriented. even though you probably know that already.
74 (again) - we're looking to push most of the time here on the button. Not with 74 though.
62 - fold
72 - fold
94 - lol yeah like you said, even if he's pushing with junk, you've got worse junk.
QT - MAYBE if we were in the BB we could call. We'd be getting good odds, but the issue is if we lose we have a mini stack, which stinks.
JJ - yup, shove.
44 - I can't see myself folding that there, with less than 10bb's I don't think you can fold that.
Q5 - nice walk
T6 - if that's folded to us, it's close but probably a push. Especially with antes.
A2 - good shove.
QQ - easy shove, never really raising anything less than that. Just looks suspicious.
62 - fold
53 - not sure if I'm auto folding that, but it is probably outside of my push range there
JJ - yup, shove, don't be afraid to shove that.
72 - fold. keep in mind you may technically be in 2nd, but you're in a virtual tie for 2nd tbh so that's not an excuse to be conservative
53 - fold
Q9 - gotta fold that, I don't think you have any fold equity.
A4 - think you gotta shove that. It might be closer because the big stack is in the BB, but still.
 
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Overall you played a solid game. The one moment I did wince was when you called a raise from the BB with 9 2. You then flopped an OESD but I think you made the correct play in folding to his shove.

Your read in HU when the villain called when you had A J looked correct to me - it smelt all over of a pocket pair. Against this you're no better than a 48:52 dog so again your fold looked ok to me, although ordinarily I agree that A J is a shove.

You seemed almost surprised when you won (admittedly you sucked out once with 88 against TT) and you came across quite negatively because of trying to put the Moshmann theories into practise. I'm going to respond to that separately as I don't think it's as automatic as you seem to be making out other posts - it's definitely situation and villain dependent.

One last thing - great to see another Seasiders fan on the forum!! I've been a fan for over 35 years and it's a joy to behold watching us now (I still remember the FA cup defeat to Hordern Colliery Welfare!!). Come on the Pool!
 
cjatud2012

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Part 3 analysis:

K3 - fold
Q9 - fold
J9 - probably shoving this, your range should be a little more narrow than normal because you're on the bubble but I'm probably shoving. Anytime you're bvb you're first instinct should always be shove.
83 - fold
T2 - fold, woohoo money!
J6 - close but a fold, your push range should widen a little bit know that you're ITM but not a lot, because your villains will be calling wider too
AT - yeah, probably gotta get the money in there no matter what
73 - yeah, now that the blinds are increased this is a good push. don't be too enamored with suited hands though.
AT - good push
88 - never ever ever just call this!!! You can't call saying that you're looking to hit an 8, I mean, if the flop came ace hi or king hi are you really folding? If so that's super exploitable, which is why you ought to just shove. Also you can't just say "he has AK", that's so wrong. He has a range of hands. this is pretty much always a 3bet pre, even though villain has usually minraised with his monsters.
98 - I like the push, you do have to consider how you need to adjust your push range when he's likely to call pretty wide. This is probably good enough, but yeah just keep it in mind.
J7 - probably a good fold, with 15bb's. heads up!
T9 - walk
A2 - probably just shoving this
Q8 - fold > raise >>>>> call
Q6 - fold looks right
A6 - good shove
42 - probably a fold
94 - nice walk
T4 - fold
Q6 - walk, notice he's playing nitty, so your shoving range should get wider, and your calling range should get smaller.
J2 - pretty much garbage, shoving anything but the worst here
AJ - the limp is suspicious, but you gotta shove it still. Don't open raise when you're this short.
92 - fold
Q6 - fold
73 - fold, but you gotta start to get aggressive
K2 - might shove this pre, obv fold the flop
QT - gotta shove, good move, nice result
54 - very good shove, it's not quite as good because his bet doesn't imply a lot of fold equity, but I don't really see a situation where you could fold that.
J3 - I think you should push this, his stack size is getting pretty low and when that happens you gotta be looking to shove most hands, pretty much anything with a broadway card, anything connected
98 - pushing this, probably just pushing the flop too. calling the flop pretty much always. again, can't just say "he has AK". good game!
 
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You could run the hands through a hand replayer next time, you will have more time to commentate on you're own thoughts plus you can skip the boring hands, saving us time :D.


Anyways...

AK- Bet slightly smaller on that flop and try for three streets of value. There's a flush draw, but apart from that, it's about as dry as you can hope for.

109s- I'd like to see you check out stack sizes before you raise, with a large stack in the BB he can call you wider (plus since he chipped up early he's likely to be a bit loose) and a short stack in the SB who can jam on you, it's not an ideal time to raise it up. I'mm all for raising these types of hands in the correct situation. What is the correct situation? Something along the lines of, tightish blinds with average stacks. Raise sizing can now be smaller too, 150 is alright in the micros, but you can get away with making it 2.5x too.

There's no way we can call that 3bet regardless, we don't beat anything, hes not shoving with anything, and with ICM considerations it's a snap fold.

99- It's a snap fold really, we don't have very good odds to draw to our set, and raising is terrible vs an UTG raise. Just let it go, we have a nice stack, we don't need to get involved. Basically, once we get a double up ( or close too) we should be less inclined to be involved as the chips gained on top of our stack are worth less and less. We can't ever float that flop i don't think as his UTG range is probably very A heavy.

Q9s- yep this is at best a complete, if we get raised, we only invested 25 chips oh well. We can never ever raise this.
1. We're out of position, making this impossible to play.
2. We have an implied odds type hand, meaning we want to get in cheaply and hit a flop.
3. WIth a loose BB, he's likely to re-raise our raise, and the guy who limped is never ever folding for 100 more, so essentially we are making the pot bigger for that player who has the advantage(position).

I'm happy to complete this, but raising gets us in all sorts of trouble.


On the flop i'd bet around 220-250 to protect against any overcards and to make it easier to get the money in on the turn.



I'll be back later on to check out the rest.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Wow - Thanks cjatud2012.

That's is some brilliant in-dept thoughts you have gone on all the videos! Really appreicate that, I didn't actually expect to get your advice on every single hand I played. Nice! I've actually replayed through some of the hands you commented and only now it makes sense since I looked them them through, so thats help a whole load - many thanks. Still some question on some of your answers which I'll ask shortly!

Thanks agian buddy!
 
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Only been able to watch the first bit - will come back and have a look at the rest later but here's some thoughts on one of the early hands:

T9s @ 25/15, 4:00 in

I don't like this. First off we can start by raising smaller, say 2.5x to save chips the times you get three-bet and have to fold. That goes across the board once you get to about 25-50 blinds, BTW, not just for this hand.

Against full stacks in the blinds I'm happy to steal here but given the SB only has 700ish AND he's probably steaming from getting sucked out on a few hands earlier I think there's a good chance we get three-bet shoved on here. I'd rather avoid that situation by just folding and waiting a round to see how this villain is gonig to play his short stack.

As played we're about 42-59 against a range like 22+ / Ax / KJ+ and chipEV on a call is pretty much even. I probably just fold and conserve the chips since it's only really a medium pot that's unlikely to be a game changer. Avoiding the spot altogether would have been preferable though.

And FWIW we're 54-46 against ATC in this spot but even a steaming player probably isn't shoving ATC here.

Nobody liked the T9 hand. The only reason I called it is because he just took a bad beat on the river in the previous hand. I've seen this happen sooo much at the micro limits they literally will shove ATC at this point. So being suited 9,10 I honestly didn't think I'd be beat by much. Granted, I was beat but still I I thought anything along the lines A,x or Kxunsuited.. With the blinds still quite low I understand it was probarly a mistake now though.
 
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Overall you played a solid game. The one moment I did wince was when you called a raise from the BB with 9 2. You then flopped an OESD but I think you made the correct play in folding to his shove.

Your read in HU when the villain called when you had A J looked correct to me - it smelt all over of a pocket pair. Against this you're no better than a 48:52 dog so again your fold looked ok to me, although ordinarily I agree that A J is a shove.

You seemed almost surprised when you won (admittedly you sucked out once with 88 against TT) and you came across quite negatively because of trying to put the Moshmann theories into practise. I'm going to respond to that separately as I don't think it's as automatic as you seem to be making out other posts - it's definitely situation and villain dependent.

One last thing - great to see another Seasiders fan on the forum!! I've been a fan for over 35 years and it's a joy to behold watching us now (I still remember the FA cup defeat to Hordern Colliery Welfare!!). Come on the Pool!

HeHe, there wasn't so many plays I did in that game that anyone liked, the 9,2 for example. I only called because it was suited and getting good odds. I know there is the theory of over playing the SB which I am guilty of at times!
Like I said in the video, I'd of normally shoved PF with that hand (A,J) espically when multi tabling but from what I saw of him (benefits of concentrating on one table) the limp looked very odd indeed. Definetly when re-raising my raise after his limp smelt like a good pair.

And yeah, up the pool and ollie ollie ollie!! I can't actually believe there is a pool supporter on here, Crazy!! Indeed, really enjoyed watching pool past 3 / 4 seasons,it's such a joy from the struggling team we was.Ollie definetly is the man for us, just hope he sticks it out for a couple more seasons at least. Should be a good game hosting Sunderland today..:)

Thanks for your input!

You just gained a bunch of advie from STT guys on how to play STT, the ranges/strategy are/is entirely different

I made several threads prior to doing this video, regarding the push/fold and not feeling comfortable with it. I was told that most applies to STT/MTT same sort of thing <<10bbs. How is it much different,please explain because this was one of my main concerns when reading his book. I pointed out I was a MTT SnG player and hope it wasn't because I was inplanting his stratergy into the MTT SnG as opposed to his STT's and hence the bad losses I've been taking!

Cheers
 
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I was told that most applies to STT/MTT same sort of thing <<10bbs
This is so incredibly wrong..... I'm not up for writing 1000 words. Basically, in a STT we're always closer to cashing; therefore, one should take less risk because we can make a decent amount of $$ from folding. In a MTT, more of the money is weighted towards 1st place, meaning that a more aggressive style is ideal. A way of putting it is there's less ICM tax. cEV is so much more different than $EV; with $EV we're concerned with how short everyone else is whereas wit cEV, we only really care about how short people left to act are. Even at a FT the <10bb ranges are different as the prize pool structure is different

I made several threads prior to doing this video, regarding the push/fold and not feeling comfortable with it. I was told that most applies to STT/MTT same sort of thing <<10bbs. How is it much different,please explain because this was one of my main concerns when reading his book. I pointed out I was a MTT SnG player and hope it wasn't because I was inplanting his stratergy into the MTT SnG as opposed to his STT's and hence the bad losses I've been taking!

Cheers

I haven't read it all yet, but the book talks about how different ICM structures influence our play. It's a more theory book than a how to beat x game



To put it straight forwardly, if you play like it's a MTT at a STT you'll be a spewtard; if you play like it's a STT at a MTT you'll be a nit
 
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pat3392

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btw, this is a pretty cool thread. Maybe mods should host such threads every month?
 
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92s- This is something you really need to stop doing quickly. It’s a min raise, yes. It really means nothing to be honest, it means he has some sort of a hand, you have 92s, you are playing out of position, that 150 represents a considerable chunk of you’re stack. You rarely flop much with such cards.

Basically, don’t get caught up with, “oh it’s only 150 and i’m getting good odds”. That’s only one side of the story, the other being i rarely hit much with this hand, even when i do i’m behind sometimes, most of the time i miss and give up, and i’m playing the entire hand out of position, so even if you do hit something, you wont get paid off very often. Lastly, when you call you only have roughly 3x what’s in the pot, meaning you really don’t have much room to move postflop.

44 on the bubble-
This is a really good fold, you have to be extremely tight UTG on the bubble and 4’s is no where near in my range to call since we have to push through the large chip leader. And with the SB being a large stack it’s likely he might get involved with the BB, which is great for us.

106 on the bubble, you hit the “prefold” button-
I would have certainly shoved that if it was folded to us. We’re shoving into a pretty simlar stack to ours, so he has to be pretty risk averse versus all players, we are forced to take thin edges in STT’s and this is one i’d be shoving with close to 100% of hands.
Also, don’t get into the habit of using thepre action buttons, if you insta fold that hand, it gives away information, just a tip if you want to move up in stakes.

53off- I’d be shoving this versus the seemingly tight BB, we now cover him in chips, meaning we can shove even wider as we are putting him to a decision for all of his chips.



Ok so that’s the second video done, if you would like me to do the last one just let me know if you find this helpful, otherwise i won’t bother.
 
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You could run the hands through a hand replayer next time, you will have more time to commentate on you're own thoughts plus you can skip the boring hands, saving us time :D.


Ahh yeah. I think next time I will do that and just skip to hands that I'm playing or contemplating playing and so on. The only downside to this is in my head I will know or have an idea of how the hand played out orginally so my comments/thoughts/commentry will probarly be changed somewhat if i'm giving my thoughts on how he's playing his hand and what he could be playing.
 
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92s- This is something you really need to stop doing quickly. It’s a min raise, yes. It really means nothing to be honest, it means he has some sort of a hand, you have 92s, you are playing out of position, that 150 represents a considerable chunk of you’re stack. You rarely flop much with such cards.

Basically, don’t get caught up with, “oh it’s only 150 and i’m getting good odds”. That’s only one side of the story, the other being i rarely hit much with this hand, even when i do i’m behind sometimes, most of the time i miss and give up, and i’m playing the entire hand out of position, so even if you do hit something, you wont get paid off very often. Lastly, when you call you only have roughly 3x what’s in the pot, meaning you really don’t have much room to move postflop.

After everyones comments regarding this and now looking back at the video I see the mistake now which at the time I don't. I thought "most" of the time you're calling a small raise if you're getting good odds you see. Or is this a case of if there are several limpers and the odds are bigger I should be playing this hand if odds are say 7-1 or better? Or is the hand a no go at all times?

44 on the bubble-
This is a really good fold, you have to be extremely tight UTG on the bubble and 4’s is no where near in my range to call since we have to push through the large chip leader. And with the SB being a large stack it’s likely he might get involved with the BB, which is great for us.

106 on the bubble, you hit the “prefold” button-
I would have certainly shoved that if it was folded to us. We’re shoving into a pretty simlar stack to ours, so he has to be pretty risk averse versus all players, we are forced to take thin edges in STT’s and this is one i’d be shoving with close to 100% of hands.
Also, don’t get into the habit of using thepre action buttons, if you insta fold that hand, it gives away information, just a tip if you want to move up in stakes.

53off- I’d be shoving this versus the seemingly tight BB, we now cover him in chips, meaning we can shove even wider as we are putting him to a decision for all of his chips.

I'm glad I made one god decision in folding the fours UTG lol. Would you realy shove that 6,4? I'm going to re-run that again I think and have a look. Isn't that such a bad hand though? I mean he might call with any picture card and be in front? In fact any call with any hand would most likely have me beat?



Ok so that’s the second video done, if you would like me to do the last one just let me know if you find this helpful, otherwise i won’t bother.

Yes please if you woulden't mind that be great. I'm taking all the notes of everyone and keep re-running through and I can see how bad I actually am playing these games..Quite unbelivable really..

Makes it so much easier when people are spotting them. I didn't actually think I made as many errors that have been pointed out. Since reviewing and reading what people have put, it actually makes so much sense..

Thanks!
 
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Only been able to watch the first bit - will come back and have a look at the rest later but here's some thoughts on one of the early hands:

T9s @ 25/15, 4:00 in

I don't like this. First off we can start by raising smaller, say 2.5x to save chips the times you get three-bet and have to fold. That goes across the board once you get to about 25-50 blinds, BTW, not just for this hand.

Against full stacks in the blinds I'm happy to steal here but given the SB only has 700ish AND he's probably steaming from getting sucked out on a few hands earlier I think there's a good chance we get three-bet shoved on here. I'd rather avoid that situation by just folding and waiting a round to see how this villain is gonig to play his short stack.

As played we're about 42-59 against a range like 22+ / Ax / KJ+ and chipEV on a call is pretty much even. I probably just fold and conserve the chips since it's only really a medium pot that's unlikely to be a game changer. Avoiding the spot altogether would have been preferable though.

And FWIW we're 54-46 against ATC in this spot but even a steaming player probably isn't shoving ATC here.

notes from the first video:

T9 - raise smaller, helps you get away from a shove, not sure if I'd call... also look at stack sizes before deciding to steal, if you'll have the odds to call a 3-bet but you won't be happy about it, not a good spot to steal


As both of you have said, raising it smaller amount. I personally have never liked the "min" bet and isn't it usually classed as a a bit weak trying to steal? When someone min raises me, the majority of the time I will call with a wide range or sometimes if I think it's a poor attempt of a steal from them I will re-raise them and they fold. More thoughts on that would be great..

Also because of the circumstance from the hand prior to this one he was sucked out on the river, so doesn't this justify a call sometimes? As I thought he pushed with a very marginal hand and mine was somewhat better in terms of connected/suited. I tend to think, when someone takes such a beat and are the shortest stack by a lot of chips they will often push anything to either get eliminated and start a new one or double up and be back to were they was so would push anything from A,x/kx to any connected cards and so on.

Is that theory totally off? Like I say, the amount of times you see someone take a beat and the next hand push, their range is sooo wide it could be ATC. I've done this stuff myself a long while back due to slight tilt and this is why I had the thought process of taking advantage of this guy pushing when they are on tilt?

I was actually a slight favourite according to a odds calculator. 8.79% to 12.98%
 
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WiZZiM

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After everyones comments regarding this and now looking back at the video I see the mistake now which at the time I don't. I thought "most" of the time you're calling a small raise if you're getting good odds you see. Or is this a case of if there are several limpers and the odds are bigger I should be playing this hand if odds are say 7-1 or better? Or is the hand a no go at all times?

I just can't see any reason why we need to be playing this, we want to make decisions easier, not harder. You have to think long term when playing this hand. Let's say we face the same raise from this player in exactly the same situation 1000 times. You need to think of how this hand plays long term, not just in this situation. It's going to be very hard, and probably impossible to show a profit playing a hand like this out of position, and once we hit the flop we really only have one move, check/raising all in, so we need to hit some sort of combo draw or made hand, which simply doesn't happen very often. So you are getting 7:1, great

I'm glad I made one god decision in folding the fours UTG lol. Would you realy shove that 6,4? I'm going to re-run that again I think and have a look. Isn't that such a bad hand though? I mean he might call with any picture card and be in front? In fact any call with any hand would most likely have me beat?


With the "6,4" i assume you mean 53? Yes it's a horrible hand, yes when we get called we are always behind. However lets say he's calling with AX, any pair, any broadway, that's around 30% of hands, so he's folding 70% of the time. Now you have to think that it's the bubble, and this player seems tight, so we can perhaps fold out a few of those hands so he may only be calling somewhere between 20-30%. And when we do get called, we usually have at least 25-40% equity vs his range, like he calls with KQs, we're not that much of an underdog vs that hand.

Try to put yourself in his shoes, this is the bubble, if he calls and loses, he gets no money, what type of hands or "range" would you call a shove with?
Sure he "might" call with any picture card, but it's hugely unlikely that he will call without something, he still has a decent stack and folding won't cripple him. So basically, i'd rather shove, get called and lose than just fold to him and give him chips. If we miss out on shoves like this, it can have negative reprocusions for the rest of the tournament. This https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/ripple-effect-sngs-186046/ may help you understand what i'm getting at.



Yes please if you woulden't mind that be great. I'm taking all the notes of everyone and keep re-running through and I can see how bad I actually am playing these games..Quite unbelivable really..Recognizing that you arn't playing optimally is the first step. Believe me when i say that the huge majority of players do not think this way and is the main reason why they lose.

Makes it so much easier when people are spotting them. I didn't actually think I made as many errors that have been pointed out. Since reviewing and reading what people have put, it actually makes so much sense..
That is pretty much what it's all about, learning, reviewing and learning again. I've player over 6,000 of these games and i'm still continually learning the game.
Thanks!

..
 
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WiZZiM

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Vid three

J9 has to be a shove here. You are giving that BB a LOT of walks, it’s something you simply can’t do. Again, i’d literally be shoving 100% of hands here, ever 23off i’d be shoving in. We have a lot of fold equity vs this player, we gave him a walk earlier which helps our image. We don’t have a lot of time before the blinds hit 200/400, picking up chips is what we need to do.
Simply put, DONT blind out. It’s probably the worst thing you can do in STT is blinding out, it will leave you with more bubbles and more third places.
J9off actually is a really good hand to be shoving with as if we are called, it’s less likely he has those cards in his hand, if he’s calling with stuff like AK and whatever. You will be surprised how wide we can/need to shove from the SB.

Just to correct something you said right after this hand, along the lines of “If i had pushed players around i might be out right now”. It’s true to a point, but the problem with it is, when you actually get in the money, you are going to be a shortstack more often, this means that you will be left with 3rd and 2nd placings a lot with few firsts.
Just to give you an example of what we call “distribution”. I’ve got a bad, losing players distribution shown here firstly (example 1), you can see that he finishes the most in 3rd, 4th and 5th places, he bubbles far too much and rarely wins. It’s because he plays way too tight and doesn’t accumulate a big enough stack on average as he gets in the money.

Let’s look at a big winningplayer(example 2), notice how different it is, first placing is now one of the highest, 2nd and 3rd are quite high too, his bubbles are low and his 5th and 6th placings are quite high also. What this tells us is that he is taking risks when he gets 5th and 6th handed in order to accumulate chips for the bubble. Going into the bubble with a bigger stack than you’re opponants means that you will have a lot more options and be able to push players around and steal blinds. That means we also get In the money (ITM) higher than our opponants on average, which leaves us with more first placings, which is really what we want to go for.

So example 1 is from a 1% ROI player, barely making any money at all. Example 2 is a 11% ROI player making nearly $2 per game!!


ITM with J6off-
We’ve given this guy a lot of walks, i’ve been saying shove all this time, but since we are now ITM this is closer to a fold. However we have a very tight image, and i hate letting players get off the hook, so i’d be shoving this for sure. Usually calling ranges of villains widen when we get ITM but i don’t see us finding a better situation before the next blind hits. We either have to shove from the button into the CL, or hope the CL gives us a wakl when the blinds hit us. Deffo a shove here for me.

73s- Yay, great shove, and you actually now seem to notice that he’s a player that is blinding out, DONT be one of those players! :D. I’m quite surprised you made this shove, when you insta folded the others, but it’s certainly a good one and one we simply had to make. This guy is the person we need to be shoving against as he is our main competition, we’re essentially fighting for 2nd place right now and shoving wide on his blinds is going to put pressure on him.

88- Calling to hit an 8 with position? We’re way way too short to be thinking like that, we only have 5 BBs we can’t do anything but shove this in preflop. We need to make decisions easier, not harder. The big stack raises, 88 has to be ahead of his raising range here, and we simply cannot call and fold the flop if say an AKQJ10or 9 comes off.

98- super easy push,nice one, we have such a big stack now we really don’t care if he calls or folds. We can never really fold anything in this spot, and since this guy seems to be reeeealy tight, i wouldn’t be folding anything.

IN heads up, if you’re opponent is folding so much, your cards literally don’t matter. When you get the blinds this high, lowering raise sizings helps a lot, even making it 1000 instead of 1200 makes a difference if he shoves and we have to fold.
Ajoff- Just shove when he limps, keep it simple, AJ is probably still way ahead on average, and silly players like this will try and trap with hands like KQ and Ax. After the raise, we need to call, if he has a big hand, oh well. But just shove, we hate it when he flat calls our raise and we miss the flop, it just gets tricky.

37- has to be good enough here, we can’t fold since he’s likely going to raise our blinds next hand, don’t really think we have a choice and he seems pretty tight as well, which is helpful. It’s ugly, but i’d shove.

J3s- easy shove for me, which have the CL and he seems tight, get it in and keep the pressure on him! J3s actually plays pretty well.
89s- Stop overthinking it! You have top pair heads up, you have the best hand! Get it in!
 

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Tangerine 53

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After everyones comments regarding this and now looking back at the video I see the mistake now which at the time I don't. I thought "most" of the time you're calling a small raise if you're getting good odds you see. Or is this a case of if there are several limpers and the odds are bigger I should be playing this hand if odds are say 7-1 or better? Or is the hand a no go at all times?

Like Wizzim has said this is such a -EV call. There are so few flops that you want to see (probably only 99x, 22x, 92x) that it's just a waste of time calling. You had the read that a min raise looked suspicious also and so both these factors should have resulted in an insta fold in my view. Out of position against a read that could indicate massive strength and with 92o is a losing combination!

In terms of min raise then the answer is 'it depends'. With some villains this is all they do so it means nothing. With others who will typically raise 3-4x to suddenly min raise then yes alarm bells are ringing. Personally I mix it up a little so that I don't fall into a pattern and give the same tells away.

Pool 2-0 down to Sunderland :( . I suspect this part of the thread will be lost on 95% of particpants to this forum lol.
 
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Lofwyr

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I made several threads prior to doing this video, regarding the push/fold and not feeling comfortable with it. I was told that most applies to STT/MTT same sort of thing <<10bbs. How is it much different,please explain because this was one of my main concerns when reading his book. I pointed out I was a MTT SnG player and hope it wasn't because I was inplanting his stratergy into the MTT SnG as opposed to his STT's and hence the bad losses I've been taking!

Cheers

Heh...having read and responded to one of those threads the primary issue you need to take away from the <10bb thing is that your move is to "shove". We didn't ever really say when to make that move...just that with so few chips you don't have other options. Flat-calls preflop, 3x/folding, etc. all become no-no's (for example, the 88 in vid 3 very much went against this concept...should just shove/fold pre).

I tend to think, when someone takes such a beat and are the shortest stack by a lot of chips they will often push anything to either get eliminated and start a new one or double up and be back to were they was so would push anything from A,x/kx to any connected cards and so on.

Is that theory totally off? Like I say, the amount of times you see someone take a beat and the next hand push, their range is sooo wide it could be ATC. I've done this stuff myself a long while back due to slight tilt and this is why I had the thought process of taking advantage of this guy pushing when they are on tilt?
I haven't seen this specific hand (only watched 3rd vid so far) but don't get too carried away with calling people "on tilt". I'll often use a perceived tilt as a way to get huge value on my monsters. Like...for me, a shove the hand after I take a bad beat of some kind is much more likely to be a MONSTER than it is to be junk.
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

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As both of you have said, raising it smaller amount. I personally have never liked the "min" bet and isn't it usually classed as a a bit weak trying to steal? When someone min raises me, the majority of the time I will call with a wide range or sometimes if I think it's a poor attempt of a steal from them I will re-raise them and they fold. More thoughts on that would be great..

Well perhaps in the early phases of the tourney a min-raise could be perceived as weak, but once the effective stack sizes in terms of bb gets low people are going to be less willing to call any bets in general. So a 2.5bb raise or even a 2.25bb raise is going to generate close to the same fold equity as a 3bb raise, but has two added benefits: 1) obviously you get to conserve chips which will be very valuable in the long run, and 2) it makes it easier to get away when you get reraised.

Also because of the circumstance from the hand prior to this one he was sucked out on the river, so doesn't this justify a call sometimes? As I thought he pushed with a very marginal hand and mine was somewhat better in terms of connected/suited. I tend to think, when someone takes such a beat and are the shortest stack by a lot of chips they will often push anything to either get eliminated and start a new one or double up and be back to were they was so would push anything from A,x/kx to any connected cards and so on.

Is that theory totally off? Like I say, the amount of times you see someone take a beat and the next hand push, their range is sooo wide it could be ATC. I've done this stuff myself a long while back due to slight tilt and this is why I had the thought process of taking advantage of this guy pushing when they are on tilt?

I was actually a slight favourite according to a odds calculator. 8.79% to 12.98%

I would tend to agree more in a cash game when you can just reload if you take a beat, or maybe even in a MTT, but the consequences for calling and losing in a STT are far more severe, whereas the benefits for calling and winning are far less.
 
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