Small Ball

just wanted to talk about small ball and ask why everyone doesn't use it?
of course if everyone used it there would be no reason to play it as it would have no effect however i was just wondering if there was any downsides to this strategy, whether small ball has any disadvantages in the game because from what i have heard about it is all positive and is there a better strategy to use in the game.
thanks in advance
adsthepro

Small ball involves having a fairly wide range in a game where tight is generally right.

I think Negreanu wrote a book on small ball, which I haven't read but I have checked out every online source on the subject I was able to get my hands on. Maybe my knowledge of it is incomplete, but from what I can tell:

You're making small raises which allows you to play a very wide range. This is good, except it takes away from your ability to isolate with your good hands (and more importantly, you're going to get stuck playing hands like AA with a very high SPR on the flop), it also may make it difficult to get stacks in with bigger hands by the river (depending on how deep you are).
I think it's kind of implied that you're openning your range up in position which means that a lot of your "trash" hands that small ball allows you to play are still probably hands you want to raise for value. Differently stated, I think your range in LP can proffitably be very, very wide and as soon as we extend from hands that are profitable to hands that we will only play if it's cheap... I just don't think that's necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I like small ball, it's basically the way you want to play most of your hands. Start the pot small and you can do all sorts of great stuff that results in more money, but if you let the pot get big early then your room to manoeuvre disappears. Having a wide range when you're doing this also allows you to make the pot get very big very quickly, when you want it to.

With that being said, there are times when you want the chips going in at the start of the hand instead of towards the end. I haven't read anything that covers breaking from the small bet/raise sizes but I assume if you had a balanced range of bluffs and strong hands that you bet a little harder then you could get away with it. (Edit: This would mean removing some strong hands from the rest of your range... not sure how that would play into it since no one is giving you credit for a lot of big hands anyway)

Another point to consider: Your bet/raise sizes are smaller and your range is wider so thinking opponents are going to play back at you a lot more.

Small Ball is actually a trap. Your not just playing more hands for small raises. The object is to have your opponents 1) not put you on a hand. 2) Not believe you got the goods and put stacks in bad.

I think most people just dont understand what small ball is. So thats the downside.

The most important thing in small ball IS NOT the small raises and wide ranges, its post-flop play.

The Dark Side said:

Small Ball is actually a trap. Your not just playing more hands for small raises. The object is to have your opponents 1) not put you on a hand. 2) Not believe you got the goods and put stacks in bad.

I think most people just dont understand what small ball is. So thats the downside.

The most important thing in small ball IS NOT the small raises and wide ranges, its post-flop play.

Click to expand...

It can be a trap.. but often you do not have the goods (thats small ball) and therefore have to fold a lot to agression.

Its very one sided to look at a strategy that involves raising every flop and then solely concentrating on the times you have the nuts and get reraised.. more often than not you will be getting reraised and have to fold or try and run a bluff yourself.. which in turn makes rebluffing / thin value shoving mor profitable against you

As I understand it the point of small ball is to see lots of flops fairly cheap and then outplay your villain post flop. Pots are kept small because this gives you more room for manoeuver ie easier to trap, bluff, fold or whatever. By consistently getting to see flops it is hard for the villain to put us on a hand - suppose we have seen 25 of 50 flops and shown some average holdings and a tight player comes in for the first time and the flop comes A78. All things being equal, we have an advantage here as we can represent all manner of hands. For example, if a 5 6 9 T or J comes on the turn the villain will be worried about the straight because we have shown we are prepared to bet PF with 9To type hands - it is hard for the villain to claim the same. The villain with AQ will not have a clue where they stand, yet we will have a fair idea where we are.

The disadvantage of small ball, in my experience, is against a really weak player who just sees they've made their pair on the flop and doesn't even consider that we are representing a straight - you know the kind of players who aren't good enough to be outplayed.

The_Pup said:

The disadvantage of small ball, in my experience, is against a really weak player who just sees they've made their pair on the flop and doesn't even consider that we are representing a straight - you know the kind of players who aren't good enough to be outplayed.

Click to expand...

^^this. Also, if you are playing a wide range of hands, it is easy to catch a piece of the flop and get sucked into playing a big pot with second-best hand. Post-flop discipline is essential.

You're supposed to outplay your opponent postflop.

bluffing into an idiot who isn't going to fold isn't outplaying them, it's paying them off.

Outplaying doesn't mean winning the pot, it means losing small pots and winning big ones.