sit and go question

Hi, this is my first post

I have been wondering for a while how to play small pairs(22-66) on the button during middle game(25-50 50-100 when no one has entered the pot. i will ussually raise double or tip the big blind, but I feel like have been getting in more trouble with these hand then they are worth. I would appericiate any help and will pass along any help I can as well.

If you're deep enough, they're definitely playable, and I'd raise them on the button most times too. Just don't go making hero calls on the river with 3-4 overcards on the board. If you're short stacked, obviously they make good shoving hands in push/fold mode.

I'd post a hand or two though. People can give better feedback on specific hands if we can see the exact situation including everyone's stack sizes and so forth.

Welcome to Cardschat!

ManicLombax said:

I'd post a hand or two though. People can give better feedback on specific hands if we can see the exact situation including everyone's stack sizes and so forth.

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Pretty much this.

Generally though, our goal with small pocket pairs is to flop a set then get our money in the middle. The easiest way to do this is with good implied odds and multi-way pots. However, at t25/t50 and especially t50/t100, it's hard to achieve that ideal scenario. So often times it's best just to fold those hands until you get to below 12bb's, in which case you can shove them from late position, imo.

Thank you so much for responding to my first post, I appreciate the help. Your right, I should have given more info including stack sizes, it was my first post so im still learning. Those were basically my thoughts as well, I guess when im on the button with around 15 to 20 bb, maybe I will start going 50/50 on raising or folding depending on who is in the blinds.

.. oh and when you say post a hand, do you mean copy and paste the exact hand as it is sent from the poker site with my actually name on it, or just right it up as accurate as i can with out any names involved?

kinghigh41 said:

.. oh and when you say post a hand, do you mean copy and paste the exact hand as it is sent from the poker site with my actually name on it, or just right it up as accurate as i can with out any names involved?

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You can have the site save the raw hand history to your hard drive, then you can copy the hand history to a hand converter like this one: https://www.cardschat.com/hand/

then post the hand in the Hand Analysis section of this forum: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-hand-analysis-51/

Hope to see you get involved!

oh ok , thank you, so for my future questions about particular hands i should go to the hand analysis section?

kinghigh41 said:

oh ok , thank you, so for my future questions about particular hands i should go to the hand analysis section?

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Yup! Just make sure it's converted, that'll be a big help to the people who are trying to analyze the hand. Oh, and make sure to remove the results from the hand, to remove any bias when people look at the hand.

moshman says limp with 22-88 in late position during mid blinds.

i'd be more hesitant to limp PP's from LP at the 100BB level. In most cases I'd shove or fold or open if i had a big stack.


IMO, a good rule of thumb is to limp 22-88 from anywhere when BB=50, and either shove or fold (or possibly limp or open from late if you have a big chipstack) when the BB=100.

Thank you Ak, I am starting to read Moshman's book now, which book has helped you the most in sit and go's?

In lp I'd make it 2.5x the big blind and just hope to pick up the blinds(no more money post flop unless I connect hard with the flop). I might try this from mp if I know the players behind me are tight. If I got players that will likely see a flop I'll just fold PPs preflop. If it's the bubble I'll fold but it really has alot more to do with stack sizes then anything. For the most part I'd open any PP from the CO for 2.5xBB with a stack of 12BBs or better.

kinghigh41 said:

Thank you Ak, I am starting to read Moshman's book now, which book has helped you the most in sit and go's?

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Moshman's book is the only sng book i've read. I just got serious in 2010, so i read the HOH 1 and 2 first to build that solid foundation of basic poker fundamentals. Then moshman, and then I just finished up Zerosum79's ABC SNG series on DragtheBar.com.

I think if you already have a good foundation, reading moshman first, and then watch the ABC series on DTB which is 7 videos is a good path IMO.

I took alot of notes on everything i read/watched and broke different concepts down into pictures, and made tools such as the push chart and calling chart (ABC). Now I am in the process of reviewing all of my notes and harvesting what is relavant and useful to the 9man stt turbos i play.

akcash said:

moshman says limp with 22-88 in late position during mid blinds.

i'd be more hesitant to limp PP's from LP at the 100BB level. In most cases I'd shove or fold or open if i had a big stack.


IMO, a good rule of thumb is to limp 22-88 from anywhere when BB=50, and either shove or fold (or possibly limp or open from late if you have a big chipstack) when the BB=100.

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Moshman doesn't say this at all. He says limping behind a few limpers with speclative hands in midblinds can be ok. But for the most part if your in lp your better off trying to steal the blinds. IMO never open limping low PP is a good idea. Either fold or try to steal the blinds from lp against tight blinds. Open limping PPs even at the earliest stages of the SNG is just a -EV play IMO(and according to my HH's).

cardplayer52 said:

Moshman doesn't say this at all. He says limping behind a few limpers with speclative hands in midblinds can be ok. But for the most part if your in lp your better off trying to steal the blinds. IMO never open limping low PP is a good idea. Either fold or try to steal the blinds from lp against tight blinds. Open limping PPs even at the earliest stages of the SNG is just a -EV play IMO(and according to my HH's).

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page 67, 2nd paragraph... i left out the part where there has to be at least 2 limpers but we learn that in lowblind play.

akcash said:

IMO, a good rule of thumb is to limp 22-88 from anywhere when BB=50, and either shove or fold (or possibly limp or open from late if you have a big chipstack) when the BB=100.

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The only time I would ever limp these is if there are limpers before me. By limping your giving the BB a free look at the flop which if he hits with 74 and you have 3's your done. I think these are worth a raise from late if your stack can handle the raise and the people behind you are fairly tight. Remember that people dont know what you have. For all they know you have AK so the only person who will call you light is the BB. And if its a pretty dry board you can take it down with a Cbet, but I wouldnt do that to often.

thunder1276 said:

The only time I would ever limp these is if there are limpers before me. By limping your giving the BB a free look at the flop which if he hits with 74 and you have 3's your done. I think these are worth a raise from late if your stack can handle the raise and the people behind you are fairly tight. Remember that people dont know what you have. For all they know you have AK so the only person who will call you light is the BB. And if its a pretty dry board you can take it down with a Cbet, but I wouldnt do that to often.

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my view on it is i play turbos. where i only have 1-2 rounds in the mid blinds. and if i have 22 in ep, i'm gonna limp/fold it and try to hit a set every time because it will only happen every other game or every few games (when you have a pp in MBP). so imo its worth it like a lottery ticket with good odds to limp from anywhere when the BB is 50. i wouldnt limp from anywhere when the BB is 100 at that point i would only open from late pos or limp if i had a big stack and there were 2 limpers ahead of me.

Yes i should have clarified i would raise from late if nobody limped first.