This is a discussion on shoving vs calling range question within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Poker section; can anyone explain wht you shove wider but when it comes to clling you need a tighter range shouldnt it be equal
There is a good reason why your calling range should be tighter than your shoving range. I will try my best to help here.
A lot of the time people are shoving hands later in the game. Most big stack players don't have 40BB stack and most are shorter ones. When a player shoves for say 11 BB any players with say 15-30 big blinds are put into a bad spot. Calling and losing the hand will then put them into a dangerous spot and possibly into the shoving range them self's. Another problem is when you shove you may have week hands in your range but the other player also knows you can shove with pocket aces. Yes pocket 8's maybe the best hand at the moment. but you have no way of winning the hand with out risking the chips in the pot by calling. By shoving a hand like pocket 8's you can win the hand 2 ways. Everyone folds or you win the hand out right. Now think of hands you might be willing to shove with? Pocket 5's, KQs or QTs. Shoving these again can win with all folds but what type of hand that they could be shoving that you are beating. Say I shove A2o and you call with QJs, i am going to win 60% of the time. I shove AQ and you call with QTs, i am ahead as a 70% favorite. I shove pockets 6's and you call with your 55 and I am 82% favorite. Now lets think of your shoving a hand VS my calling. You shove with QJs and I fold A2o and you win. You shove pocket 5's and I will fold most times my pocket 6's. Yes is you shove the QTs I call with my AQo but the other 2 hands I fold and you win with no risk.
Hope this helps.
September 17th, 2018, 2:16 AM
Join Date: Apr 2017
Poker at: party poker
You must play like that because you must eliminate a chance to call with weeaker hand,if someone shove from cutoff 15 bb with A10 + you cant call witth A10 in these pozition because you call with his bottom range,only A10 its good for you other hands is stronger than yours!!!
September 17th, 2018, 2:36 AM
Join Date: Apr 2018
Online Poker at: ACR/BOL/BOV
Game: NLH & PLO8
Originally Posted by Kalamari
can anyone explain wht you shove wider but when it comes to clling you need a tighter range shouldnt it be equal
The power of aggression
September 17th, 2018, 3:34 AM
Join Date: Mar 2018
Poker at: Pokerstars
re: Poker & shoving vs calling range question
When you shove with K10 you have fold equity. Because the other player dont know with what hand you are shoving, he considers top 10% range and can easily fold the winning hand. Thats why shoving with a wider range is still +ev. Cause winning blinds and antes come into play.
Calling a shove with K10, you dont have fold equity, you cant win just blinds and antes, your only way to win is by winning the hand, so thats the reason you are calling with tighter range!
September 17th, 2018, 8:20 AM
Join Date: Mar 2017
Online Poker at: ACR
Well thatís simple, because the person doing the shoving is acting first. There are many push or fold calculators or just ranges depending on how many big blinds you have, the action that preceded you (although this is often not included and is more of an experience thing I think) and the amount of player to the left of you.