Should you call if you think someone has exploded?

Basically, imagine you and one more big stack at your table.
You call with QQ.He has KK. You both put about half your stacks in the pot and you suck out with a Q. You think this guys is hacked off from your suckout.
Next hand action comes to him and he goes all in. I think for a 2nd and tell myself hes just angry. I call him with KJ offsuit.
He turns over AQ suited and I give him his chips back.
I would never usually play my KJ but on that occasion thought it was right!

What do yot think, was it still a bad call?

You have raised a good point. I often fall into the same trap you did. You opponent may've been savvy enough to know that people like you and me think that an all in after a bad beat is just throwing money away, so with a legitimate hand he moves all in and knows you may call with anything. In many cases, I don't think this is true.

Over time I have thought about this and I think we are making big mistakes. We think that the bad beat has affected the opponent's play, when in actuality we have allowed our own good fortune affect our own game in a way that we wouldn't like.

Anyway, with KJ, I don't think it's too bad a move and when the money goes in you aren't in too bad shape either.

If he seems like a decent opponent then he has you beat for sure. Good players know that people will think they are on tilt after a beat. Good players don't usually tilt either.

Calling an all-in for what sounds like (hard to tell exactly how many chips) a lot of chips with KJo sounds like a poor move imo. Obviously, tells and previous hand history with this guy come into play, but still it sounds like a good portion of your stack.

This topic came up the other day....if your call on his all-in is only 10% of your stack, then you should call. Beyond that figure, factor in the info you have. If you really thought he was tilting, and just shoving, then maybe you made the right decision.

I fold here, every time.

It's different if on the previous hand I took his whole stack (say he only just had me covered, and we went all in) and now he's got less than half a buy in in front of him, I'll probably call with KJ.

Put yourself in his position, you've just taking a massive beat and you pick up a big hand, if you show any kind of aggression people are just going to think you're on tilt, so you overbet.

Even if it was real tilt, I'd still want a reasonable ace, A8 or better before I call.

You also have to consider how many people are still behind you waiting to act. In my regular game if the players behind me were weaker players, I'd expect them to call even after I've come in with pocket 6's or better or with moderate aces since they figure that he's on tilt and I'm calling with ace rag or weak pockets. I'd feel better having the stronger players behind me, because they'd only come in with big pockets and AK-AJ which means I'm more likely to get it heads up.

I think you still have to have a reasonable hand to call, even if he is on tilt.
Why give up what you just won?

I usually look at the amount I just won, the size of the blinds and then decide if I can call (but I have to have a hand first)

Yea, I would call a little looser than usual but not much, AQ and middle pairs assuming its for almost half our chips with low blinds...not KJ. This is only on the very next hand and if I'm last to act or have a hand good enough to risk calling with a couple players after me.

If he keeps shoving hand after hand then I would add a few more hands...really depends on your position at table and what % of our stack this is as to how wide to call.

As usual.. "IT DEPENDS". It depends upon stack sizes... stack sizes in relation to the blinds,... how your own stack will be affected both positively &/or negatively by making the call (winning or losing... << often times increasing your stack by 'x' number of chips isn't nearly as beneficial as it would be 'not benefial' to be losing that 'x' number of chips from your stack).

If I feel my opponent is tilting.. "YES" I will call down lighter.. but not if he's shoving like 20bb's first into a pot and I don't have a good hand. It also really depends upon what player I'm talking about here... a good player won't let a suckout bother them to the degree of making a loose shove right after it.... again... "It Depends".

As far as calling w KJo there goes.... I can't give you a decent answer without knowing the particulars of the situation. There's always far more to it than just what my cards are.

Sorry... I guess what I mean is - - sometimes it might be the 'correct' call... sometimes not,... sometimes 'close'... sometimes 'terrible'.

You are a big stack.... there's no reason to put your stack in jeopardy.

I'd call a little loser against a tilter. My default range for a "tilter shoving like that " is something like A/x (beats KJ), any pocket pair (beats KJ), and any two face cards. I guess someone might shove with suited connectors like 8/9+, if you are really lucky. So I'm only calling with the upper end of that range, like A/Q+ and 9/9+.... but probably not that loose if his stack is still too big.
There's no way I'd putting in half my of my chips with K/J when I had a big chip lead.

There's just no reason to get into what's a coin flip (or worse) at this point. If a short stack was on tilt and shoved, maybe I can call with K/J from the blinds or button if he was in the cutoff or better (as that's prime stealing territory).

More often than not, the player is on tilt and you probably have the better hand with K,J. But why risk it? Wait for a better opportunity .

If you don't already have any money invested, then why would you call anyones all in with KJ?
Only time I would call is if your getting good pot odds and it wouldn't hurt my stack much. Even A2 vs KJ is a little less than even money.

idk....it depends on how long u been watching this guy and how much will he cut u.....sometimes u just have to ignore the challenge

I have seen this before and been a part of this. The hand I committed most of my chips to, I lost due to a suck on the river. I had 2,000 in chips and when the hand was over I'm left with 540 in chips.

The VERY NEXT HAND I get KK. I'm BB of 100 and 5 other people called the blind. 500 in the pot and I push all-in. Everyone folds but the guy who had taken my chips, who calls with AQ. I won the hand and get back almost all my chips.

I have been on the other end of this as well. You can't always assume someone is on tilt. How many times have you been one hand away from the one you should of waited for.

It happens. KJ though. I would of had to folded it.

Do not call it!
Why should you risk your chips with kj?!?
Wait for another opportunity!
Even if he has got 27off...
Unless you are not late in a tournement then it is not worth thinking about it....

Roll fever. Fold. Sit back, take a deep breath and go back to playing a solid game with a good stack.

Its the same process behind the bad beat syndrome. The guy obviously has it - he took a bad beat and is looking to make it up with a moderate hand right away. He should have sat back and not even played the AQ.

i fold the 1st time. but if he shoves again and i can take the hit i'd call the 2nd shove w/KJ. for the most part if he is steaming nothing will steam him more than you folding to his shove.

As a general rule you want to play loose against tight opponents and play tight against loose opponents. If you think somebody has "exploded" they're playing loose so you should tighten up your game against that opponent. Calling all-ins with KJ is not tight.

With KJ you're not a huge favorite against most hands. Any ace and any pair has you beat, and hands like Q 10 or 89 even 35 you're better off just folding than seeing 5 cards in a 60/40 spot (give or take).

You just doubled up against somebody, and your in a tourney wich is about survival. Don't get your chips into the middle in marginal spots.


For some reason I assumed that this was a tourney hand...only reason behind my last thoughts.

NO, put your hand in to pokerstove, vs AK, AA, KK, QQ, AQ, and then see were you stand at. I have lost with AK, to AA, only to have AA the next hand, i have been called, won a huge pot..
So don't think for one bit their on tilt, or must i post my HH to show you?????

kidkvno1 said:

NO, put your hand in to pokerstove, vs AK, AA, KK, QQ, AQ, and then see were you stand at. I have lost with AK, to AA, only to have AA the next hand, i have been called, won a huge pot..
So don't think for one bit their on tilt, or must i post my HH to show you?????

Click to expand...

I see what you mean, thanx for the info .

I would of had to of made the call there myself and just take my chances with it you have to take some chances in poker even if they are just marginalo ones or yo9 will never get anywhere just alway sitting back and trying to wait to play monster pockets only.

I believe that the win you just had in the previous encounter with this player where you had him beaten by your QQ against his KK after the board flipped another Q got you overwhelmed. And because of that your thought of what hand he had when he pushed all-in no longer matter that much to you.

I guess in the early part of the game you had folded KJo before. So why call an all-in with the same hand?

Just a thought ....

It depends on how much was his stack but if it was a decent amount I wouldnt risk my chips with KJ but if it was a small amount I would've probably called

Your question goes to the essence of poker. Reads. We have all seen it enough to understand it a little, but few will be understanding it a lot.

In this case you relied on your read, and for that reason you can be forgiven your donk call. But a better thing might be to relax and enjoy the suckout win for a hand or two, find out if villain actually was twistedly tilted.

Something that seldom gets discussed is that feeling of invincibility that comes after a suckout win, or a monster hand win. It is as persuasive as tilt, and can do just as much damage. So your villain might have been on tilt, but you were feeling overly invincible. It made you do something you probably didn't really want to do, play KJ in an unfavorable situation..... net effect is neutral and your read is the culprit.

Thanx everyone

Some good repies.
Thanx everyone