Should I end my short experience with $2.20 180's?

Hi guys,

First thing first before someone says it. I know the sample size is too small. However, I do believe my game has improved and it's the first time I have been comfortable playing SnG's and getting a good push/calling range vs players.

I've been grinding SnG's for around a month in total now and been consistently earning a little profit. I say a month, obviously I've played SnG's a lot longer but I took time out to study it more and I started my "official" grind about a month ago and so far it's going ok.

I will give a quick run down of recent events. I had initially around $150.00 and was grinding 50cent + $1.10 45/90man Turbos on stars, but because I managed to take a second place in a $1.00 3K gtd a couple of weeks back I cashed for just over $350.00 so my bankroll was good enough, to add $2.20 games in to the mix which included the $2.20 90 mans standard speed (which are going ok) and the $2.20 180 turbo's which aren't going as well..

As I say, I know my sample isn't huge but I think I can be consistently profitable at $1.10/$2.00 45/90man there is just an issue with the 180's at present. Obviously I know the variance is going to be a lot higher, the play isn't any better - from what I've seen it's actually worse! People early stages willing to stack with garbage.

I've played just over 300 SnG's in total, but at the minute and I'm unsure of if it's varience or I'm just not good enough. The thing is, like I say - I don't think they are harder in the slightest but I'm unsure if I want to continue grinding them if I have leaks. I have taken a 3rd place at the start of them, but just min cashing at most in the last 20 but down overall from all SnG's around $40.00/$50.00 Is this a normal downswing for $1.00/$2.00 turbos?

Here are my graphs anyway to see what you think.

45man $1.00.

110 tournaments: Profit: +$65.00



90man $1.00/$2.00

150 tournaments: Profit: +$79.00



180man $2.20

35 tournaments: Profit: -$27.00




Overall SnG graph



310 tournaments: Profit: +$133.00


Obviously the most consistent is the 45mans and I find them the easier along with 90 man. I just wonder if this simply could be variance because of the short games I've played at the 180mans, but at $2.20 a go even with $500.00 I'm still quite nitty and a downswing can put you in a bad place like I feel I'm in now and being down $50.00 in total kinda sucks for micros.. so do you think spikes like this in $2.20 180's normal and I'm guessing people have had a lot worse but it still is a bit hard to deal with. Downswings in the $1.00/$2.00 45/90 are fine, it doesn't really effect me as you can see in the 90man(was down $40.00 at one) one and I don't even really recall this happening yet I notice it with the 180's..

Is this nothing? Should I not worry and continue grinding them or?

I'm also one of those people, who now wants to keep grinding them to turn a profit in them or just to hit a profit then banish them from the grind.

As you can see in the overall SnG graph, it doesn't look to pretty that down swing at the end and it's what I'm currently in..do I stick it out or just get rid of the 180's and carry on where I was doing? I know taking a first place in the 180 is going to wipe the losses out and give me a good profit, I'm just unsure of how to deal with or if I want to carry on popping $2.20 every 5minutes and watch my BR dwindle. Obviously it just doesn't just dwindle because of the 45/90 I have going on too...I just blah dunno what to do!

Thoughts/ideas would be nice..

Ramdeebamm,
Check out Shaun Deeb's beginner's guide to the 180s here"
http://www.pocketfives.com/f7/step-step-guide-beating-180-man-tournies-pstars-285825/
The article is old, but it gives you a good starting point by encouraging you to stay active throughout the tournament instead of winning one big pot and then getting blinded off. By setting stack goals for each level and sticking to Shaun's strategy, you will approach the bubble and final table relatively worry-free.
I also advise you to use stop-n-gos and go-n-gos as you approach the bubble if you have an average or below average stack. Since the blinds are so high, the average stack is only going to be about 7 or 8 Big Blinds, and you want to have at least 15.

35 tournaments is nothing mate - variance is huge. You'll need to play a sample of a few thousand to get any idea of your ROI, and expect to go on downswings which can last several hundred games.

You are a MTT player, so you know variance is huge in larger fields and will need a cold mind to not get crazy with variance in those. Also already mention that 1 good hit in 180´s can turn that -% and be back on track, even mention a good hit in a MTT ($1/3kgtd), so you already know what to expect, the question is if you can manage that in long term (not cashing in long amount of games or min cash then 1 hit then again not cashing, etc).

You have above 100 games in your other S&g's, so you could at least try 100 to see how that go, or if already think are not for you, then stick with the others, If you are doing ok in 90man/$1-$2 and 45man/$1 why not add 45man/$2 or $3, or maybe add 1 or 2 more tables.

You are the only who can decide what to do, good Luck whatever you decide.

BTW in the last couple of days I've played nearly 250 of the 180 mans ($2/$7/$3r) and I've got a -23% ROI but 1 $7 or a couple of $2 wins would give me a decent ROI over that sample..

Thanks replies.

Yeah I know the sample isn't huge at all, the thing is, how much can these 2.20 cripple your BR if you're running bad? Is a 100 downswing in these possible? I just dont want to ruin my long grind from other games on the 2.20's yet I want to play them too just don't want my BR to busto even though with 200+ buyins I'm a nit!:s

I suppose I could add the 90/45man $3,00 games..are they just as soft?

So mixing them all up pascal with what I'm doing should be ok?

Yes 100 buyin downswings are not only possible but are likely if you put in serious volume at them. I played around 4k of the 2.20 180s and experienced a couple huge swings like that...and I finished with a 65% roi in them. That being said, I always advise against mixing turbo and non turbo, especially for a developing player. It's all too easy to make multitabling errors when you play both types at once.

Bwammo said:

Yes 100 buyin downswings are not only possible but are likely if you put in serious volume at them. I played around 4k of the 2.20 180s and experienced a couple huge swings like that...and I finished with a 65% roi in them. That being said, I always advise against mixing turbo and non turbo, especially for a developing player. It's all too easy to make multitabling errors when you play both types at once.

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Thanks for the reply, that's quite sick..I'm not sure if I can mentally take 200$+ downswing..mm If you swing that bad then I'm likely to swing a lot worse being a worse player than you.

As for not mixing turobs and non turbos, why is this? I've not really noticed much of a difference in playing both as both come to a point of shoving ~10bb's or less or is there another reason?

ramdeebam said:

Thanks for the reply, that's quite sick..I'm not sure if I can mentally take 200$+ downswing..mm If you swing that bad then I'm likely to swing a lot worse being a worse player than you.

As for not mixing turobs and non turbos, why is this? I've not really noticed much of a difference in playing both as both come to a point of shoving ~10bb's or less or is there another reason?

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In turbos you need to actually take more thin spots than you would in a normal game where you can wait a little bit longer, thanks to the blinds going up quicker.

+1 to wizzim's post

Standard speed games give you more time to wait, turbos make us hit the gas earlier, so if you are multitabling both it can be strange.

Ahh right ok thanks.

I dunno I just tend to seem ok, maybe I should just try turbos or standard together and have better results

Just found this and would suugest concentrating on the game that you feel most effective in.

I have played a lot of micro HU SNGs recently, but not enjoying them, so been playing 6max SNGs and feel better.

My style is prety Nitty so I shy away from Turbos and let others make mistakes early.

Just my thoughts

Any update on this ramdeebam, did you continue with the 180's?