should i have called? was i fav?

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trigga3

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early stages in a small buy in tourney all pritty deep and stacks are quite level, riddled with fish.
I raise (6h 7h) 4x early-mid position get a call from cut off, button and bb

flop comes (Qh 5h 4s) bb checks i bet 2/3 pot cut off shoves button+bb both fold
im left with 1300stack pot of around 1800 easy call?

as it happened i call he shows AsQs turn and riv come spades and im out.

what would people have done differently? and was i fav? cheers
 
flatcaller

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Unlucky, I don't mind getting it in early on huge draw.
 
Ducky7

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No problem with playing your massive draw aggressively, and with those pot odds you are never folding. You are favourite to win this hand against Aces (not what i'd put him on but an example) and all one pair hands. You are fav against AQs in this spot. Although its almost a direct flip (you are in better shape if he has AA wierdly ha)
 
Poker Orifice

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early stages in a small buy in tourney all pritty deep and stacks are quite level, riddled with fish.
I raise (6h 7h) 4x early-mid position get a call from cut off, button and bb

flop comes (Qh 5h 4s) bb checks i bet 2/3 pot cut off shoves button+bb both fold
im left with 1300stack pot of around 1800 easy call?

as it happened i call he shows AsQs turn and riv come spades and im out.

what would people have done differently? and was i fav? cheers
Can't see how you're all deep if there's 1800 in the middle (after the action you've described) & 1300 left in stack to call with.
Obviously it's a SUPER EASY call in this spot.

fwiw, 'fold pre'
 
Ezekiel162

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That's rough it turned out that way. You had crazy odds ...only scary thought would orig. been if they were holding 2 hearts as well (probably not though because I doubt they would have shoved on a draw so obviously they are holding Qx or higher PPs), chances are they would have been higher than yours but I still think the straight/flush possibilities might have been worth it either way... I more than likely would have done the same... Woulda got caught the same too... lol... maybe PO' got it right...
 
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andrewsz1991

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I would call. You're about 50 percent here. I like getting it in there with the draw
 
micalupagoo

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POs been saying it a lot lately- fold pre:)
surprised every1 is ready to go allin on a draw- i thought that was a fish play and I stopped doing it (circumstances do change that)
I guess with odds ( tho 50% means your out of tourny half the time- kinda sucky in my opinion),equity,m value, or whatever all those terms are that get thrown around to make it seem proper...
what would you have done if reraised preflop?

just me, but i dont like putting my tourny life on the line with a chase (unless i gotta)
 
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cheers for the advice, i know the standard play would be just to fold pre but i dont like to play standard poker at the start of an mtt like to mix it up and get a table rep as a idiot gambler that way i get paid off more in the middle stages when if i tighten up. I tend to choose my hands carefully tho so like playing low suited cards over hands such as AJ or KQ where im likely either dominated or getting no action. Was reasonably happy getting it all in there was very few hands i was well behind and i dont mind a gamble to chip up early in a small buyin event.
 
shinedown.45

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You say your table was riddled with fish and yet you're the one to get knocked out early.
My honest opinion, I run into alot of players like you when playing micro games and with all due respect, players like yourself are the ones who are what I like to call dead money.
You could start reading some SnG strat articles here at CC to learn how to play pre-flop or stop posting hands that are clear folds pre-flop.

The only real problem you had with this hand stems from the fact that you didn't folded pre.

You get all this positive feedback from the members here at CC but only one member tells you you should have folded pre-flop(correct advice BTW).
You may tell us the reason behind your pre-flop decision but that doesn't matter because had you made the RIGHT decision pre, you wouldn't be posting this problem.
 
Arjonius

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cheers for the advice, i know the standard play would be just to fold pre but i dont like to play standard poker at the start of an mtt like to mix it up and get a table rep as a idiot gambler that way i get paid off more in the middle stages when if i tighten up.
You might want to think this through some more. For one thing, how many of the fish are are paying enough attention to you to form any kind of image, never mind a very accurate one? Next, even among those who do, how many will still be around when it gets to the middle stages? And among those who are, how often will you get into a situation where their image of you leads them to play against you in a different, lower EV manner than they normally play?

Your thinking isn't incorrect per se. It's just applied in a vacuum without properly considering the nature of the opponents. Fish are fish because they think like fish. Don't give them more credit than they earn just so you can tell yourself you know how to cultivate a table image.
 
Karkus77

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fold pre and bad strategy to be honest mate

as played, probably have to call the all in and curse myself for not folding pre
 
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Shinedown with respect I love playing ABC nits like yourself. If you raise a hand i just fold and i just steal your blinds the rest of the time. I think its very patronising that you assume a player is bad because he has raised suited connectors pre in a tourney just because its not the way you choose to play doesn't make it wrong. An awfull lot of good players will play the hand the way I did Im open to others opinions but the game isnt black and white you can play aggresivly well as well as just being a nit!
 
suit2please

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...game isnt black and white you can play aggresivly well as well as just being a nit!

Playing tight doesnt mean you aren't aggressive, just as playing loose doesnt mean you are aggressive.

If you had won the hand im positive you wouldn't have posted this thread, but that wouldnt have meant you played it correctly.

As someone else asked what would you have done if reraised preflop? Your out of position with mediocre holdings. The only thing that saved you was flopping a good draw but even then your all in on a coin flip at the beginning of a tourney "riddled with fish". If there are so many fish there should be a lot better spots to build a stack.

But as everyone has said as played got to call.
 
Karkus77

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agreed suit2please

you mention there being alot of fish, thats why the general strategy for small/micro buy in tournies is to wait for a hand and double up because there are so many fish that will call, playing marginal hands from EP early on is a mistake because you might get 3-4 fish calling and not have a clue where you are 95% of the time
 
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early stages in a small buy in tourney all pritty deep and stacks are quite level, riddled with fish.
I raise (6h 7h) 4x early-mid position get a call from cut off, button and bb

flop comes (Qh 5h 4s) bb checks i bet 2/3 pot cut off shoves button+bb both fold
im left with 1300stack pot of around 1800 easy call?

as it happened i call he shows AsQs turn and riv come spades and im out.

what would people have done differently? and was i fav? cheers

HH?

2/2.5x pre late in tourneys, then you can open more frequently (wider) for cheaper..

doubt its deep stacked since he shoved over a 8bb cbet in a 18bb pot and you had 13bb behind.

imo, snap. :shakehand

edit: read the rest, you can/should just fold pre.

didn't see the EP raise :|
 
MediaBLITZ

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Shinedown with respect I love playing ABC nits like yourself. If you raise a hand i just fold and i just steal your blinds the rest of the time. I think its very patronising that you assume a player is bad because he has raised suited connectors pre in a tourney just because its not the way you choose to play doesn't make it wrong. An awfull lot of good players will play the hand the way I did Im open to others opinions but the game isnt black and white you can play aggresivly well as well as just being a nit!

I would assume a player is bad if he doesn't know if he's a ahead ("a fav") or not.

I would assume a player is bad if he considers 1500 chips to be "deep".

I would assume a poster is a troll if he asks for advice when his mind is already made up.

I would assume a player is a fish is he thinks the way to play fish is to play like a fish.
 
Ezekiel162

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Rules to live by... imho...
 
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I would assume a player is bad if he doesn't know if he's a ahead ("a fav") or not.

I would assume a player is bad if he considers 1500 chips to be "deep".

I would assume a poster is a troll if he asks for advice when his mind is already made up.

I would assume a player is a fish is he thinks the way to play fish is to play like a fish.

Sooo.......What are you trying to say????:p
 
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1500 blinds 10/20 in a tourney is pritty deep no?? 75bb is deep enough??
 
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Alot of good advice often comes from experience afaik.

Though even experienced players make mistakes they don't make them as frequently as unexperienced players.

Just add the postcount of the posters saying that that was a good and +EV move

and compare the sum to the postcount of the members who say it was -EV and you should fold pre. :creep:
 
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trigga3

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also my mind was made up about my pre-flop play i was asking for advice post flop, we can all just say fold anything not a premium hand pre.
 
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Obviously (I'd hope it'd be obvious?.. no?) it's a SNAPCALL postflop as played. You're most likely ahead (unless villain is on FD) & then it's close... either way.. it's EZ PEEZY get it in ainec.
With odds we're getting & while being ahead, can't understand why anyone would suggest 'fold' here on flop?????:confused:

why 4x pre?
 
MediaBLITZ

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1500 blinds 10/20 in a tourney is pritty deep no?? 75bb is deep enough??

No - but I understand this is probably relative to your experience. I regularly play in $5,000 and $10,000 live MTT that start off $25-$50 and I don't even really consider the $5,000 deep at all.

But generally speaking, in the poker world, deep refers to over 100BB - but even that is a bare minimum and can be effected by blind structure.
100BB is actually pretty average.

The problem with 10/20 in an online 1500 is your 75BB are going to be 37BB in a matter of minutes. Then 18BB in another few minutes. With that kind of escalation, even 100 BB could not be considered deep.
 
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trigga3

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your just nit picking if i went by what you said deep is, there would be no such thing as being deep stacked in tournement play. I have played obv much deeper in cash games but i outlined the situation there was no need to start giving abuse and being so condesending. Im very surprised you have the time to be posting on forums with the amount of money you must be making playing 100% perfect poker!
 
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