Should I have called this hand?

What would you have done?

  • Fold - too many people in the pot

    Votes: 24 63.2%
  • Call - worth it with pocket 10s

    Votes: 11 28.9%
  • Raise - Bump it to 1,500 and see what happens

    Votes: 2 5.3%
  • Shove - You only live once

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Total voters
    38
teepack

teepack

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I just returned from my first experience playing a wsop Circuit Event at Cherokee. I played for Team CardsChat in the $500K guaranteed event on Saturday. I managed to last for almost 12 levels and was doing really good until I made a minor mistake and compounded it with a massive mistake - all in the same hand.

But that is not the hand that bothers me the most. I know I screwed up on it, so I'm over it. But a hand that was a lot earlier is the one that I still think about. I will set the scenario, and then you guys tell me what you would have done.

Second level, 75/150. My starting stack was 10k chips, and I'm down to about 9000 after my JJ lost to a 4-5 who hit a straight on the river. 10 players on the table. For this hand, I am the dealer.

UTG - raises to 300
UTG+1 - raises to 900
UTG+2 -folds
UTG+3 - calls
UTG+4 - calls
UTG+5 - folds
UTG+6 - folds
Dealer (me) - looks at my cards and sees 10-10.

So to sum it up, when it got to me, there had been a raise and a re-raise and two calls, and there were still 3 more people to act - the SB, BB and original raiser.

What would you have done?
 
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Ambur

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fold pre (best play here) or call/x preflop! imo

Your hand is not strong enough to 4bet/x (preflop) in this spot+almost pot commited if you do so, which i think is terribad plan. imo
 
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rock0001

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Maybe i would just call this hand also going all in isnt a bad option because the first player only makes a min raise so i dont think his hand is that strong unless he is slowplaying aces or kings. The player who makes the 3 bet might have a pair of queens or a strong hand so you have to be careful. Its important to know how tight or loose the player who 3 bets is. Maybe shoving all in might be good against 2 loose players considering that the first one just make a weak raise and would probably fold your shove and if the one who makes the 3 bet callls you are going to be 55% 45% in most situations or even better if he has a pair of niños or lower ( against a loose player). Being on the dealer position has lots of advantages here because you are the last one to act and you are only commiting 10% of your stack so the best choice here is calling and wait for a low flop to shove all in if both players check. Also i agree with ambur dont 4 bet here because tens arent a strong hand to 4 bet especialy with 60 bb so you should better shove all in instead.
 
PokerFunKid

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I'm folding. Unless you want to setmine and fold on any board which doesn't have a ten. But a utg raise and then a re-raise from utg+1 is prety strong. Then the 2 guys calling should also notice this and make 2 strong calls. TT is never a favorite here. So basicly you need to hit a ten on the flop and maybe even then you don't have the best hand if there's a Q/K/A on the board.
 
rock0001

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Maybe i would just call this hand also going all in isnt a bad option because the first player only makes a min raise so i dont think his hand is that strong unless he is slowplaying aces or kings. The player who makes the 3 bet might have a pair of queens or a strong hand so you have to be careful. Its important to know how tight or loose the player who 3 bets is. Maybe shoving all in might be good against 2 loose players considering that the first one just make a weak raise and would probably fold your shove and if the one who makes the 3 bet callls you are going to be 55% 45% in most situations or even better if he has a pair of nines or lower ( against a loose player). Being on the dealer position has lots of advantages here because you are the last one to act and you are only commiting 10% of your stack so the best choice here is calling and wait for a low flop to shove all in if both players check. Also i agree with ambur dont 4 bet here because tens arent a strong hand to 4 bet especialy with 60 bb so you should better shove all in instead.
Sorry my ipad autocorrect nines to niños ( child) i correct this now.
 
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iflylight

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i think its either a fold or shove i think both are reasonable the shove because it looks SUPER strong dont really know what better hands would fold except maybe jacks but with 3.2k in there and you are prepared to take a risk say utg has like 88 or or kq he is folding and maybe ace queen utg+1 if he feels utg is opening very loose might have just tries to pick it up there and even if he has aces you are only a 4:1 dog with the potential of more than doubling up. but i still think i would probably fold with people behind and the two limpers even though they probably have something like suited connectors or a pair like 66
 
wildyetty

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i say fold its too early an your stack was still decent. good time to get a read on rest of table
 
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PBG789

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Pretty easy fold imo.

Other options:

Call to set mine - not terrible but as already pointed out you could hit a T and still not have the best hand based on the pre-flop action if there is any AKQJ on the board. Also, crucially, the original raiser is still to act and may decide to jam with AA or KK!

4-bet - no! TT simply cannot do that in this spot.

Shove - the likelihood that someone does not have QQ+ based on the pre-flop action is pretty slim and you are almost always getting looked up as an 80:20 dog. So no!
 
PokerFunKid

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Oh, and its not a fold because i think there is to many people in the pot. But a fold because the action before you is way to strong and you need to hit a set to maybe be good.
 
Poker Orifice

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i think its either a fold or shove i think both are reasonable the shove because it looks SUPER strong dont really know what better hands would fold except maybe jacks but with 3.2k in there and you are prepared to take a risk say utg has like 88 or or kq he is folding and maybe ace queen utg+1 if he feels utg is opening very loose might have just tries to pick it up there and even if he has aces you are only a 4:1 dog with the potential of more than doubling up. but i still think i would probably fold with people behind and the two limpers even though they probably have something like suited connectors or a pair like 66

Maybe try reading the HandHistory again..... there's no 'limpers' in this hand.
 
Poker Orifice

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Pretty easy fold imo.

Other options:

Call to set mine - not terrible but as already pointed out you could hit a T and still not have the best hand based on the pre-flop action if there is any AKQJ on the board. Also, crucially, the original raiser is still to act and may decide to jam with AA or KK!

4-bet - no! TT simply cannot do that in this spot.

Shove - the likelihood that someone does not have QQ+ based on the pre-flop action is pretty slim and you are almost always getting looked up as an 80:20 dog. So no!

this ^

Calling to setmine 'maybe'.

I'd be thinking utg1 is pretty strong here... & then with the others flatting the 3bet ... seems a tad odd (was this the norm for that table?)
 
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Ambur

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Pretty easy fold imo.
Shove - the likelihood that someone does not have QQ+ based on the pre-flop action is pretty slim and you are almost always getting looked up as an 80:20 dog. So no!

Jep, shove is terribad. imo
 
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PSloces

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I think this has to be a fold. We are not deepstacked enough at this stage to profitably set mine, also what are we gonna do when we call and UTG Jams? UTG +1 probably has a hand that either dominates us JJ's+ or flips with us. AQ+, not sure what these other players have (probably mid-strong pairs). Seems like a terrible play by them to just call unless everyone at the table is sitting a lot deeper than you? Getting 3-1 on the 3000 in the pot by jamming might seem like a good move but I still think we are behind here, and probably not worth risking tourney life on it.

Then what are we gonna do when we whiff the flop which will happen a majority of the time. If the board comes out all low we are gonna be sick calling an all in and seeing JJ's +, and we can't comfortably call, bet, or shove when over's come out.

So tough fold but with 9000 we can find much better opportunities to apply pressure and chip up. Don't want to waste any vital chips when we are already sitting with less than 100BB's.
 
rock0001

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Some of you say to fold the hand. I would like to know your reaction if the flop is 2 3 10 rainbow. The first player just min raise and even if there is a 3 bet both players can be having ak or aq giving the pair of tens even more odds to win the hand. this is a 6bb 3 bet not a 12 or 16 bb raise and unless the player who 3 bets is a very tight player i think calling is the right option here. Even shoving can be good if the player who 3 bets is a loose player.
 
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PBG789

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Some of you say to fold the hand. I would like to know your reaction if the flop is 2 3 10 rainbow. The first player just min raise and even if there is a 3 bet both players can be having ak or aq giving the pair of tens even more odds to win the hand. this is a 6bb 3 bet not a 12 or 16 bb raise and unless the player who 3 bets is a very tight player i think calling is the right option here. Even shoving can be good if the player who 3 bets is a loose player.

What happens after you fold is irrelevant.
 
yeezus

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Fold or call to set mine are the only options.Just so much can go wrong with all the people in the hand. The UTG could also just shove with all the other callers in the hand if he has AK+. So im pretty much leaning to a fold here with the information gathered and how early you are in the tourney.
 
rock0001

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What happens after you fold is irrelevant.

maybe, but folding tens when someone 3 bets only 6bb with a 60 bb stack on the button seems a bit nit imo. I dont understand how folding is a good option here considering you have position and is only 10% of his stack.
 
yeezus

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maybe, but folding tens when someone 3 bets only 6bb with a 60 bb stack on the button seems a bit nit imo. I dont understand how folding is a good option here considering you have position and is only 10% of his stack.

Agreed, but the min raise utg is a little bit fishy. He could be holding JJ+ and was just trying to get callers or a re raise so he could shove. Being as it is early you cannot be sure what he is doing because not enough information has been gained thats why I lean towards a fold. If utg does shove there is no way you can call and you lose out on 900 chips.
 
teepack

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Thanks for all the feedback guys and gals. It seems the consensus was to fold, with some sentiment for calling and a few suggesting a shove. Folding is what I did. I did not want to risk 10 percent of my stack so early in the tourney, especially after I had already lost 10 percent. If I had been the last to act, I might have called, but I was also concerned about the 3 players still to act, including the original raiser. I was not going to call a re-raise with 10-10, and so I didn't want to run the risk of just throwing away 900 chips. I never considered shoving.

Of course, the kicker is that the flop came up 10-6-3 rainbow. The turn was a second spade. And the river was the 3 of spades. I would have had 10s over 3s, and the guy who won the pot ended up with an ace high flush. I could have gotten a lot of chips out of that hand, but I still feel the fold was the right play.
 
rock0001

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Thanks for all the feedback guys and gals. It seems the consensus was to fold, with some sentiment for calling and a few suggesting a shove. Folding is what I did. I did not want to risk 10 percent of my stack so early in the tourney, especially after I had already lost 10 percent. If I had been the last to act, I might have called, but I was also concerned about the 3 players still to act, including the original raiser. I was not going to call a re-raise with 10-10, and so I didn't want to run the risk of just throwing away 900 chips. I never considered shoving.

Of course, the kicker is that the flop came up 10-6-3 rainbow. The turn was a second spade. And the river was the 3 of spades. I would have had 10s over 3s, and the guy who won the pot ended up with an ace high flush. I could have gotten a lot of chips out of that hand, but I still feel the fold was the right play.

Sorry but i have to insist that this wasnt a good fold. You were on the button and it was only 6bb to call the hand. Im just curious about which hand both players had...
 
almanik

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I vote for call. 10-10 it's good card to play in position.
 
wildyetty

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Sorry but i have to insist that this wasnt a good fold. You were on the button and it was only 6bb to call the hand. Im just curious about which hand both players had...

no he wasn't there were still 3 more behind him left to act
 
exer888

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I would call there. At least take a look on a flop. Its unlikely that guy will 4 bet there, if he does , ez fold.
 
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I'm folding the tens. The only other option I'd consider is an all-in shove, but I don't really like it so early in the tourney... A call is the worst play; two outs with 16 over-cards in the deck...

So, shove or fold. I'm taking fold.
 
akyurukov

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Your stack is too big there is an option to call but when you get 3-betted from the players behind you....or from the player in UTG ?
Considering the position of the raise and the 3-bet (the earliest positions,these players should got big starting hands) i will fold the tens avoiding future 4-bet from other players and save my stack if utg just clls and a low flop comes,bcause if so how many bets i am ready to just call on a low board ?
Instead jeopardize my stack i prefer folding,im not saying that a call is bad i just wont call here...that's my opinion about the hand...
 
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