Should I fold a set of jacks after the flop?

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pcgnome

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Here's the situation. I am at the FT & ITM on Carbon. There are 10 players left.
The ante is 50 blinds 200/400
I am in the cut-off w/6158 chips I am dealt :js4: :jc4:
UTG+1 bets 867
UTG+3 calls
I call
Flop - :jd4: :10d4: :9s4:
UTG+1 bets 2467
UTG+3 calls
What should I do here? I don't want to fold, but UTG+1 has about the same amount of chips as I do, and could very easily have a KQ. Even if he has a straight, I will still have 7 outs.

I remember a similar situation in a live game when I 1st starting playing hold-em.
I had a set after flop. The villain asked me how many chip I had, said he was all in, and that he had a flush. I had no clue as to how to make a decision, So I called hoping that I would get lucky.
I am just wondering if I played it right this time.
 
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tenbob

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Shove or fold pre flop.

I don't know tbh, I dont think i would ever be in this position, but if i were, id fall back on the old mantra of "dont fold sets"
 
pcgnome

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I don't like to shove pre flop w/pocket jacks. They don't hold up very well all the way to the river,
 
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BlueNowhere

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Pre is horrible. Get it in. As played you 13BB left, just put it in.
 
WVHillbilly

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Get it in preflop. As played shove!
 
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BlueNowhere

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I don't like to shove pre flop w/pocket jacks. They don't hold up very well all the way to the river,

So you somehow think calling two people with 15BB is better? You have two options here, call is not one of them. If you don't like to shove for whatever random reason just fold (not that I'm actually advocating folding).
 
pcgnome

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Say if there are a couple of overcards after the flop, and MP+1 bets, then it's an easy fold. That's what I was thinking.
 
tenbob

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Say if there are a couple of overcards after the flop, and MP+1 bets, then it's an easy fold. That's what I was thinking.

Say he is an habitual c-better, and has raised pre with 88 ?

Seriously just shove pre.
 
natsgrampy

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Tough one, seeing as you are already ITM, I would go for it all at this point. I wouldn't put either player on Q,K
maybe Q,Q or 10 ,10.

It's shove time!
 
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It's also a brilliant way to flush equity down the drain. At this point you sohuld be more than happy to flip for stacks.
 
WVHillbilly

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Calling preflop is BAD.
 
tenbob

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Tough one, seeing as you are already ITM, I would go for it all at this point. I wouldn't put either player on Q,K
maybe Q,Q or 10 ,10.

It's shove time!

Dont put anyone on specific hands, we put people on a range of hands, KQ is part of that range, along with overpairs, sets, 2 pair type hands, AKd, 87o, 87d etc etc.
 
duggs

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thats really weak passive, if you arent willing to shove pre what would you shove?
 
pcgnome

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I shoved when it was my turn to bet, and they both called.
MP+1 raised and MP+3 folded after the turn.
It turns out that MP+1 had the KQ just like I thought. and the board never paired after the flop.
IDN if he would have called an all-in raise pre.
It was just a cooler I guess.An unlucky flop.
I can get those guys back later on today.
 
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WVHillbilly

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I shoved when it was my turn to bet, and they both called.
MP+1 raised and MP+3 folded after the turn.
It turns out that MP+1 had the KQ just like I thought. and the board never paired after the flop.
IDN if he would have called an all-in raise pre.
It was just a cooler I guess.An unlucky flop.
I can get those guys back later on today.
Stop that! Putting people on the one hand that beats you is a terrible way to play poker.
 
JDAWG5

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I would go all in preflop.

15 BBs is pre- flop shove territory

If I look down at pocket Jacks, I'm SHOVING!:)
 
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baudib1

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JJ with 15 BBs and money already in the pot is like a wet dream. stick it in.
 
-Phil Ivey27

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Gotta shove pre-flop. Honestly you should be happy to do so.

By not doing so even though you got a great results and flopped 3 Jacks you're still in an uncomfortable situation.

Regardless this is a shove post-flop as well.
 
pcgnome

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OK I've got it. Shove pre w/15 BB at the final table-In the money w/JJ.
This is thread getting to be like a old broken vinyl record, because you keep repeating yourselves. I've got it.
 
Poker Orifice

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MP+1 had the KQ
IDN if he would have called an all-in raise pre.
Would you have been upset if he had called pre if you had shoved?:confused:
 
pcgnome

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Some people seem to get really upset when their pocket jacks get cracked.
Last night in an SnG I was all in w/ less than 5BB -AQo vs. JJ, and an ace hits the river. The guy kept calling me a fish. I was only a 60/40 underdog...What else could I have done? How does that hand make me a fish?
In a $1 re-buy last night I had AK vs JJ. I was all in a 3-way pot w/>8k By the turn I had two pair, and on the river comes the jack. A min-cash in that tourney could have netted me at least $15. I was just so shocked that I couldn't hit the re-buy button.
These examples have nothing to do with anything. I am on an evil rant, and we're just shooting a dead horse right now.
 
FeltLikeIt

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yeah jacks and tens suck.... I usually bet pretty hard, I make who ever is calling either push or fold, they won't be able to just simply call. becuase I am goiong to make them commit to the descison. So JJ or 10's bet hard enough that the averege stack has to commit to a descison instead of limping or calling a questionable all in!
 
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baudib1

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The problem seems to be that this is a pretty basic spot and if you have trouble with this you are likely leaking in other areas. This alone is a pretty big one; work on your push/shove game and you'll improve your tournament play dramatically. You shouldn't call with any hand in this spot.
 
timemuffin

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Don't be scared to shove pre flop with this. It's instant shove imo.
 
pcgnome

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Like I've said. I've seen all-in pocket jacks get cracked too many times. Any beginner would have shoved. I must have been second-guessing myself too hard.
 
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