Should I be aloud to reraise here?(weird issue)

playtheman · Jan 15, 2014

For the purpose of my question blind size and stacks dont really matter
Ok so:
Im utg with kk

I 4 bet,

folds to a short stack who goes all in

lets say my bet was to 2400, they shoved 3000

Im thinking sweets, ill call that all day.

villain on the button calls the all in, (he has 7k left behind)
I was just thinking, ok, gonna reraise here and iso the all in short stack.

Folds the blinds back to me.

Now for some reason, I can only call the 600. there is no reraise option, no shoving option, its just call or fold.

I am pretty confused at this, so i click call.

now the board comes As2s6c

And the guy on the button just shoves as quickly as the board comes out.

I fold because Im just not sure wtf was going on, he shoved 77 on the ace high flop, I quickly face palm. and takes down the pot vs the 22 of the short stack

Am I missing something about poker?
I should be aloud to reraise and isolate the original shover preflop?. I mean just because they go all in doesnt mean that I can only call if 1 person is also in the pot with me right?

I contacted the help chat on pkr, the guy sent the hand to tech and said ill hear back from them.

Any way, I was left slightly tilted and down on chips,
I some how managed to come 3rd after the 77 idiot went all in with ace high vs a reg with a boat.

Anyone ever have this happen to them?

BluffMeAllIn · Jan 15, 2014

Your not able to reraise because the amount over your 4-bet as you indicated obv was not equal to the amount of your raise and therefore did not reopen for further action besides a call.

(example if was just the 3 players, A sb, B bb, C btn.
Player A - sb = 200
Player B - bb = 400
Player C - raises to 1k
Player A - reraises to 3k
Player B - allin for 4k
Player C - calls additional 3k
Player A Options - Fold or Call the additional 1K)

Unfortunate you folded in fear of the A, given the situation if the btn had a strong enough A I would almost have expected him to reshove on you pre if he was willing to flat your 4-bet with only < a pot size amount remaining post. Again lots of variables to that, but if he did flat with an A that was strong enough to make a 3-bet I would almost have expected him to check the flop to you in hopes you would shove it and he collect your chips...... just some thoughts to how you could find a call there but certainly could be running into an AK in the spot or AQ more likely kiven you have 2 kings.

In either situation I think the mistake was that if you were really thinking about isolating the short stack perhaps a 4-bet shove would have been a better option (but again don't know your stack and other variables so its all situational).

Just some of my thoughts on a quick overview of your post.

Jblocher1 · Jan 15, 2014

playtheman said:
For the purpose of my question blind size and stacks dont really matter
Ok so:
Im utg with kk

I 4 bet,

folds to a short stack who goes all in

lets say my bet was to 2400, they shoved 3000

Im thinking sweets, ill call that all day.

villain on the button calls the all in, (he has 7k left behind)
I was just thinking, ok, gonna reraise here and iso the all in short stack.

Folds the blinds back to me.

Now for some reason, I can only call the 600. there is no reraise option, no shoving option, its just call or fold.

I am pretty confused at this, so i click call.

now the board comes As2s6c

And the guy on the button just shoves as quickly as the board comes out.

I fold because Im just not sure wtf was going on, he shoved 77 on the ace high flop, I quickly face palm. and takes down the pot vs the 22 of the short stack

Am I missing something about poker?
I should be aloud to reraise and isolate the original shover preflop?. I mean just because they go all in doesnt mean that I can only call if 1 person is also in the pot with me right?

I contacted the help chat on pkr, the guy sent the hand to tech and said ill hear back from them.

Any way, I was left slightly tilted and down on chips,
I some how managed to come 3rd after the 77 idiot went all in with ace high vs a reg with a boat.

Anyone ever have this happen to them?

Scenario makes no sense. He flipped up 77 which beat 22? 22 is a set on the board u described?

BluffMeAllIn · Jan 15, 2014

Jblocher1 said:
Scenario makes no sense. He flipped up 77 which beat 22? 22 is a set on the board u described?

I figured he meant the 77 took the side but then again now that I think of it there was no side because he folded lol.

playtheman · Jan 15, 2014

BluffMeAllIn said:
I figured he meant the 77 took the side but then again now that I think of it there was no side because he folded lol.

Sorry. There was no 2 on the flop. It was 3 !I was posting quickly.
And not in the best of moods.

However I dont see why I could not reraise pre

it was me raise. Then shove then a call then back to me.

why cant I shove here?

BluffMeAllIn · Jan 15, 2014

playtheman said:
why cant I shove here?

You can't raise because its simply not open to a raise as I had indicated. In order to make a reraise, the previous raise must be at least equal to the amount you raised.

So if its 1k to you, you make it 3k, the allin is <5k and the original 1k opts to just call then you can't reraise. However if the allin was >= 5k then you could.

playtheman · Jan 15, 2014

BluffMeAllIn said:
You can't raise because its simply not open to a raise as I had indicated. In order to make a reraise, the previous raise must be at least equal to the amount you raised.

So if its 1k to you, you make it 3k, the allin is <5k and the original 1k opts to just call then you can't reraise. However if the allin was >= 5k then you could.

Thats quite frustrating. So it you were trying to trap and a short stack shoved you cant reraise even if the button calls before you.

Ive never come across this situation before.

BluffMeAllIn · Jan 15, 2014

playtheman said:
Thats quite frustrating. So it you were trying to trap and a short stack shoved you cant reraise even if the button calls before you.

Ive never come across this situation before.

That is correct, if for example you limped from UTG and a ss shoved but for less than 2bb and everyone else then limped/called the ss raise then you only have the option to call.

In the previous situation described with the 3 players however the btn could have raised, like I said I am surprised he chose to only flat given you reraised him and after calling the ss allin he left himself with less than a pot size bet for the flop.

playtheman · Jan 15, 2014

BluffMeAllIn said:
That is correct, if for example you limped from UTG and a ss shoved but for less than 2bb and everyone else then limped/called the ss raise then you only have the option to call.

In the previous situation described with the 3 players however the btn could have raised, like I said I am surprised he chose to only flat given you reraised him and after calling the ss allin he left himself with less than a pot size bet for the flop.

Ok so if I minraised. And the short stack shoved.and he had twice the min raise. And then the button calls. I can now reraise ?
That seems harsh lol

im supprised im only comin coming across this now?

pokertoi · Jan 15, 2014

I'm not sure if I completely understand the scenario, (haven't read any poker books) Me, myself depending on where I was in the tournament, and how close I was to the money, kk, qq, aa, and jj, i'm all in.

playtheman · Jan 15, 2014

pokertoi said:
I'm not sure if I completely understand the scenario, (haven't read any poker books) Me, myself depending on where I was in the tournament, and how close I was to the money, kk, qq, aa, and jj, i'm all in.

well thats just screaming you have a big hand and you wont get much value, maybe get the odd shover who has a similar hand.

Im utg, I raise to 2400,

stack of 3k shoves,
button calls
I can now only call the 600 and cant challenge the guy who flats on the button.

It seems if I min raised and then the short stack shoved I could have reraised when the button called.

I think its an absolutely silly situation to happen,

It basically giving hands that might be afraid of me going all in a free chance to get into the pot knowing I wont fold or shove.

BluffMeAllIn · Jan 15, 2014

playtheman said:
Ok so if I minraised. And the short stack shoved.and he had twice the min raise. And then the button calls. I can now reraise ?
That seems harsh lol

im supprised im only comin coming across this now?

Yes If you minraised say to 80 with bb being 40, then the ss would need to have 120+ in order for you to be able to reraise if there were people limped in that you wanted to shove over.

If you had gone 100 then he would need 160 or more because your raise amount is the amount that needs to be doubled for you to then be able to reraise if others limped for the amount the ss put allin.

playtheman · Jan 15, 2014

BluffMeAllIn said:
Yes If you minraised say to 80 with bb being 40, then the ss would need to have 120+ in order for you to be able to reraise if there were people limped in that you wanted to shove over.

If you had gone 100 then he would need 160 or more because your raise amount is the amount that needs to be doubled for you to then be able to reraise if others limped for the amount the ss put allin.

does that not seem like a way of letting fish to flat without risk of you going all in?

Should it not be that if your bet is raised by any amount then you can reraise to protect your hand

Its just such a bad situation

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Should I be aloud to reraise here?(weird issue)

playtheman

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