Short stacked - behind 2 all-ins - what do you do?

vegasjj

vegasjj

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Total posts
1,885
Chips
0
I am not sure what is the correct play in this situation....

If I am short stack and 2 players are all-in - do I go all-in with near any 2 in the hopes of triple-up and be back in the game?
Is there some point - (ie chipstack) where this may make sense?

For an example, here is a hand I just played. Did not win - but it did have real potential to win ....

PokerStars - $3+$0.30|50/100 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

cappybmse (UTG): 3,804
Bloo Shoes (UTG+1): 1,021
PokerChild K (MP): 825
CrAzY_sTeFaN (MP+1): 3,844
synedrol22 (CO): 3,242
inti1488 (BTN): 2,630
Weissr (SB): 1,463
vegasjj49 (BB): 630

Weissr posts SB 50, vegasjj49 posts BB 100

Pre Flop: (pot: 150) vegasjj49 has 9:heart: Q:club:

fold, fold, PokerChild K raises to 825 and is all-in, fold, synedrol22 raises to 3,242 and is all-in, fold, fold, vegasjj49 calls 530 and is all-in

Flop: (2,330, 3 players) 9:spade: A:spade: J:club:

Turn: (2,330, 3 players) 5:spade:

River: (2,330, 3 players) Q:spade:

PokerChild K shows 4:diamond: 4:spade: (Flush, Ace High)

Main Pot [1,940]: (Pre 31%, Flop 14%, Turn 26%)
Side Pot#1 [390]: (Pre 52%, Flop 13%, Turn 25%)

synedrol22 shows A:diamond: K:diamond: (One Pair, Aces)

Main Pot [1,940]: (Pre 42%, Flop 67%, Turn 64%)
Side Pot#1 [390]: (Pre 48%, Flop 87%, Turn 75%)

vegasjj49 shows 9:heart: Q:club: (Two Pair, Queens and Nines)

Main Pot [1,940]: (Pre 28%, Flop 19%, Turn 10%)

PokerChild K wins 2,330
 
MasterOfDisaster

MasterOfDisaster

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Total posts
3,841
Chips
0
Slightly 2 optimistic I think,
 
S

SnowedIn

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Total posts
188
Chips
0
Would fold myself and then another 8 hands till you're in the BB again, and hope for a better spot. Thinking about it a call probably is the correct decision though. If there were antes then yeah got to call but w/o maybe not
 
W

WiZZiM

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Total posts
5,008
Chips
0
Im going to assume this is a large field MTT, in this case it really doesn tmatter what you do really, however you want to get your stack in with as few people as possible.

With 100 of our stack in the blinds and needing like tens or hundreds of thousands of chips to be a chance of getting deep in this thing, i don't really mind you call and i wouldn't really care if it was a strictly -EV play on paper vs decent ranges, because you just need so many chips, you have little to no folding equity anyways, and you really need to get that stack in and double or triple up.
 
S

seghill

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Total posts
236
Chips
0
with the flush and A showing and going all in you were beat - tough but "know when to fold them"
 
G

Gregstocke

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Total posts
31
Chips
0
Donkeying Down to Lady Luck on a Super Wingit

Great question! Before just donkeying down to lady luck on a super wingit, ask yourself a few questions. If you can hold out for better cards, because you are not in immediate danger of being blinded, you should definitely hold out. But, if you think the big stacks are just launching into a rush that has just started for you, (because you won the last hand and it looks like the board wants to match your cards in a winning way), go for it, let them feel the pain, and ignore their insults (no poker player ever admits they were in the wrong for getting aggressive in the middle of someone else's rush). Now, if you've got a high pocket pair, you may feel compelled to go all-in, but, ask yourself whether you are in the middle of a bad-beat streak. If you're in the middle of a bad beat streak, those QQs are probably poisonous for you. Nevertheless, if you're going to be blinded out soon, you really don't have much choice. You need to go in. Finally, what kind of players have they been? Have they been just bullying and pressing their luck every which way, or, have they been pretty tight and usually come out of the box with top-notch hands? Try to take these things into consideration and let the chips land where they will!
 
P

PBG789

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Total posts
134
Chips
0
What do you think the other players have here? Short stack has a pretty wide range but you're still behind a lot of it and mostly flipping at the very best. When the CO reshoves we must give him credit for knowing this and this therefore narrows his range and you are behind almost 100% of it.

If you are going in with this knowledge and just want to gamble (it is early in the tournament and you need to get some chips) then fine go for it but you are almost always going to be a dog. That being said with 5BB left behind I don't think this is the worst play in the world in the early stages of a tournament where you haven't invested too much time.
 
P

PBG789

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Total posts
134
Chips
0
I agree, looks like a long shot to me. Gross spot to get it in. Pure gamble - free chips anyone ?? :hahaha:

As played hero was 28%, 44 was 30% and AK 41%. At this early stage in a MTT when that short this is a reasonable gamble.
 
Juanes1913

Juanes1913

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Total posts
828
Chips
0
Mmm in this situation I think it would be better wait another spot :)
(just saying) :eek:
 
gus201

gus201

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Total posts
216
Chips
0
I guess reading this ,what comes to mind is :
1) what reads do I have on them players
2)is this the best situation for me
3)what is the best type of hand for me to DRAW out on ( dont want Pocket Pair here )
4) shouldnt Iwait or have played some type of suited connector to draw out ( or have the shot at drawing out to the better hand ).

I try to put myself in the best possible situation to take down the hand and get back in the game.

GOOD LUCK
 
B

braveboat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Total posts
139
Chips
0
I don't like the spot, myself. Your hand is unconnected, unsuited, and unfavorable to win anything in a multi-way pot. With just 6 BB you have zero fold equity, so I'd wait for the button or cutoff to shove hoping to get a light call from a single big stack willing to flip.
 
PokerFunKid

PokerFunKid

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Total posts
5,131
Chips
0
Folding for sure, you will get way better spots and that stack still has some fold equity.
 
yeezus

yeezus

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Total posts
92
Chips
0
I feel like this is a fold. Then again you do need a lot of chips you need to gain. There have been spots when i folded hands like this and would have won. I think it varies from the perspective of how the table image isbthe players images and so on.
 
vegasjj

vegasjj

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Total posts
1,885
Chips
0
Thank you all for posting.

It seems that most advice is to wait for a better spot.
Really appreciate it. No doubt it was a very weak hand in a very bad position.

I would like to share my thinking - after this hand (if I fold), next I am small blind (very likely a fold) I will have under 500 chips - BB is 100 already and growing.
At some point I have to try to double-up (sooner the better - while I have more chips) or really I will be blinded out. Have no fold equity - so have to win a showdown. Winning a showdown - is always up to the poker Gods.
Might as well GAMBLE while a win that would triple me up would actually give me a real breathing room - real space to play.

Basically I think there comes a point when the only thing you can do is GAMBLE. (An other way to ask the question would be how long do you hold out hoping for a better spot?)
Where is that point
- if you looking at a double-up situation and where is it
- if you looking at a triple-up situation?
 
R

rondecuba2

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Usually with a stack like this, you prefer to get it in first. Specially now that you have already paid the BB you have 1 orbit more to try to get it in first.

A call to an all in with any pair / any 2 face cards / any ace is correct also.
But a call with Q9o after 2 all ins in front of you, i think it doesn't have any chance
 
VGShaa

VGShaa

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Total posts
1,368
Awards
8
Chips
52
In this situation, I would have preferred to make a pass and wait for the other spot. Q9 is not the best hand, even for your stack. Immediately increase the stack at x3 is very tempting, but Q9 looks as if you bingo playing :)
 
H

hffjd2000

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Total posts
2,329
Chips
0
Typical scenario where one opponent has a pair and the other one has 2 high cards.

For sure, your hand equity here is at the bottom.
 
jh1spartanfan

jh1spartanfan

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 11, 2010
Total posts
254
Chips
0
I could definitely see calling one all-in in front of you here with that short of a stack. However, going against two hands seems like a really tough situation. I know that trying to triple up seems like a better option than doubling up, but all it really does is decrease your chance of winning, especially with a hand like Q9o. At some point you were probably going to have to take a gamble though, so I guess it's really tough to say it was the wrong play, but personally I would have tried to wait to be in a better position.
 
BentleyBoy

BentleyBoy

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Total posts
2,384
Awards
8
Chips
306
VEGASjj...how you doing? Having read the advice above I have to agree that in this situation I would have held my nerve and waited for a stronger holding before shoving. The main reason to maximise my opportunity to win, rather than maximise the opportunity to gain more IF I win. It was a long shot and you lost out, but in such circumstances I guess the main advice is hold on till a strong hand turns up and give it a go then, against fewer players also hopefully.

It's a great learning experience, playing poker.

BB
 
akyurukov

akyurukov

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Total posts
200
Chips
0
1.If you call does it worth to risk your stack and life in the tourney(despite been short)Think,if you win how many bb's will you get,you can be very far away from wining the hand.
Personally i will wait when there is no player all in before me and then shove i may not have any fold equity but this will give me better chance to win insted of just gamble...
:)
 
Top