Short Stack vs Short Stack position advantage.

#1 July 16th, 2020, 11:34 PM

Which player has the advantage?

Sometimes it feels the big blind has the advantage because the player that can first to move has the best chance to steal the pot with fold equity.

Because I found when I am short stack 1 of 2 works really well.

If I miss the fold, I just jam. I still have a ton of fold equity.
If I hit the fold against any pair, I check, jam.

If you are short stacked your opp, really don't have much play and gets put in a really tough position.

If it was deep stacked no doubt the button has the advantage.

#2 July 17th, 2020, 6:02 AM

I get what you are saying here but it depends by what a short stack is to you. If a short stack is 12 BB or less than the in position player still has the advantage because they have the first chance to jam pre flop. If you are talking 20 or so big blinds where you are both in that range and you will be going to flop more often then I agree that there is some advantage to being able to act first since you get to bluff first. Gus Hansen talked about this a long time ago where he did not mind being out of position because he saw it as an advantage to be the first one to get a chance to bluff (he has good results live, at least I think he does, but his online record is very poor from what I have seen). I dont agree with that for most stack sizes but yes there might be that range of 20-25 BB stacks where it can be beneficial to act first.

#3 July 17th, 2020, 8:55 AM

It seems like you are talking heads up poker, which is kind of a special game. Just in general if your stack is short enough to donk jam the flop, then it was also short enough to jam preflop, and usually that will be the better play. What you are doing is called a stop and go, and I pretty much never do that heads up. I will do it sometimes on tables with 3 or more players left, if I got a free look at the flop with a hand, I did not want to jam pre, and connected with the board in some way. Or maybe I called a mini-raise with a hand, which again I did not want to jam pre.

#4 July 17th, 2020, 12:50 PM

Like Fundiver says, you're talking about heads-up here? The most common times for the out-of-position player to have the advantage is with intense ICM because the OOP player can ensure fold equity by being the first one to jam.

You're right though that stop and go is a nice way to nullify your positional disadvantage post-flop with short stacks.

#5 July 17th, 2020, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Collin Moshman

The most common times for the out-of-position player to have the advantage is with intense ICM because the OOP player can ensure fold equity by being the first one to jam.

And just to clarify: ICM does not exist heads up, because heads up you either win or lose, and to win you need all the chips Short Stack vs Short Stack position advantage.

Short Stack vs Short Stack position advantage.

#6 July 18th, 2020, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by fundiver199

And just to clarify: ICM does not exist heads up, because heads up you either win or lose, and to win you need all the chips Short Stack vs Short Stack position advantage.

Yes thanks, re-reading my post, that point definitely wasn't clear Short Stack vs Short Stack position advantage.

The intense ICM situations would be on the bubble of a 9-man SNG for example. But for sure there's no ICM heads-up.

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Short Stack vs Short Stack position advantage.

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