Short stack strategy

I was playing the short stack late in a MTT. I was 8 spots from the cash and i had a little over 11 BBs with 11,200. There was also a 100 ante. My question is: Is it correct to just open shove with really any above average hand pf? I shoved with KQs and lost to Ax. What is the weakest hand I should have shoved with?

I personally wouldn't shove with less than a high ace or a pair.

I personally wouldn't shove with anything less than A10o, any mid pair and up my money is most certain in the middle. I know technically with KQs and 10bbs your money is supposed to be in but when I'm close to the bubble I sometimes throw it away.

KQ is not good hand to shove, and worse in early position, actually with your stack, more than 10 bb, i would fold this hand, still has more than 20 hands to play and just 8 places to make itm, so no hurry here, i think it wasn´t the best decision,

if you were less than 3bb, then you could shove but you weren´t so bad, maybe if yoou fold every hand you were made itm

well, better luck next time

Personally I would shove this hand with 11bbs from middle to late position, I might drop it in early position though. It's a good hand and you are flipping with all pocket pairs except QQ,KK,AA, and the only Ax hands you are a dog against are AQ and AK.

I think its a clear shove withoutan open if it folds to you.But i suppose the only time its maybe a fold is if its a particually massive bubble.Where a min cash makes a big difference to your bankroll but in normal certcumstance a clear open shove.

The action was folded to me in MP. I realize now it wasn't the best move after going through the history because there was a relatively deep stack in the big blind. I definitely could have waited for a better spot.

That depends..... I don't like KQ all that much either, but with 10BB left, is it right to wait for "better" hand when everyone before you folds? Especially when it was suited. It's tough decision to make being close to the bubble, but who's to say you'd be lucky and catch better hand in upcoming rounds?!

The problem is the longer you wait the less value you will get from your shove. i would rather shove in late position but sometimes the cards don't let you do that. KQ is not the best hand but not the worst either. Sometimes you just have to gamble and you could shove Aces and still lose.

Tiltt2424 said:

I was playing the short stack late in a MTT. I was 8 spots from the cash and i had a little over 11 BBs with 11,200. There was also a 100 ante. My question is: Is it correct to just open shove with really any above average hand pf? I shoved with KQs and lost to Ax. What is the weakest hand I should have shoved with?

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At full tables with a stack of 10 big blinds you have to act according to your position, as well as depending on the number of raisers before you. If you did not have to raise, play worth following hands:
1. Early Position: TT +, AQ +
2. Middle Position: 88 +, Ats +, AJ +
3. Cut-off: 66 +, A8 +, A5s +, KQ +, KJs +
4. Button 22 +, A2 +, KT +, K9s +, QJs +
5. Blinds: K5 +, K2s +, Q9 +, Q5s +, JT +, J8s +, T9s +
If you in the game until someone came with a raise to narrow the range acted out.
For less than 10 blinds there is much wider range.Almost always better to play a push without raises, but unless premium hand u can raise 3xbb

Just need to look at the table if there aggressive large stacks that could call KQs and u can push, if table passive u can standart raise, without any information about the table, it is difficult to advise you that.

Tiltt2424 said:

I was playing the short stack late in a MTT. I was 8 spots from the cash and i had a little over 11 BBs with 11,200. There was also a 100 ante. My question is: Is it correct to just open shove with really any above average hand pf? I shoved with KQs and lost to Ax. What is the weakest hand I should have shoved with?

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Can't really answer, to many variables. What's your definition of an above average hand with 11bb? what are the positions? What are the stack sizes to act behind? Who are you shoving into, nits/loose players etc?

I know open shoving 11BB with KQs from any position is more than fine though, so nice hand unlucky.

horizon12 said:

At full tables with a stack of 10 big blinds you have to act according to your position, as well as depending on the number of raisers before you. If you did not have to raise, play worth following hands:
1. Early Position: TT +, AQ +
2. Middle Position: 88 +, Ats +, AJ +
3. Cut-off: 66 +, A8 +, A5s +, KQ +, KJs +
4. Button 22 +, A2 +, KT +, K9s +, QJs +
5. Blinds: K5 +, K2s +, Q9 +, Q5s +, JT +, J8s +, T9s +
If you in the game until someone came with a raise to narrow the range acted out.
For less than 10 blinds there is much wider range.Almost always better to play a push without raises, but unless premium hand u can raise 3xbb

Just need to look at the table if there aggressive large stacks that could call KQs and u can push, if table passive u can standat raise, without any information about the table, it is difficult to advise you that.

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Your shoving range at a full table on 10bb seems way to tight to me.

I'd go more like,

UTG: 33+, A8s+,A5s, AJo+, K9s+, KQo, QTs+, JTs, T9s.
MP: 22+, A2s+, A9o+, K8s+, KJo+, Q9s+, QJo, J8s+ JTo, T8s+, 98s

etc

Obviously wider the better our position. Your button and blind shoving range is way, way to tight too.

Really, really, disagree with just raising at a passive table with KQ for example. Also don't agree ever 3x on a 10bb ever, with monsters stack or even raising at all in general, just open shove all your range as it's just going to look so nutted when you start raising of a 10bb stack.

Having a big stack calling your when you have KQs isn't a bad thing either given their likely going to be calling much lighter.

I think shoving KQ is a mistake, could wait for A high, or any pair, 11 bb is not the worst stack you can have on bubble and you could cash some money..

ramdeebam said:

Your shoving range at a full table on 10bb seems way to tight to me.

I'd go more like,

UTG: 33+, A8s+,A5s, AJo+, K9s+, KQo, QTs+, JTs, T9s.
MP: 22+, A2s+, A9o+, K8s+, KJo+, Q9s+, QJo, J8s+ JTo, T8s+, 98s

etc

Obviously wider the better our position. Your button and blind shoving range is way, way to tight too.

Really, really, disagree with just raising at a passive table with KQ for example. Also don't agree ever 3x on a 10bb ever, with monsters stack or even raising at all in general, just open shove all your range as it's just going to look so nutted when you start raising of a 10bb stack.

Having a big stack calling your when you have KQs isn't a bad thing either given their likely going to be calling much lighter.

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Yes this range tight, I wrote a ranged, since not very strong players it it is suitable. With a wider range should be too describe, is highly dependent on our position and how many short stacks at the table than our .
Other moments what i sayd. I do not know what BI would play creator topic,in the game, these approaches are used and it is possible to mix for balance game..

And as I said without information stacks and style game table at the table, it is difficult to advise that .

On a fun note i just shoved kQ late pos on a short stack and ran into AA flopped a K but no good.but yeah its just so standard cant worry about it.

That close to the bubble I tend to wait, reminding myself about what a friend was fond of saying. "I'd rather be blinded out than bust out on a stupid play." Not the be all and end all, but I take this into consideration.

sleepymike said:

That close to the bubble I tend to wait, reminding myself about what a friend was fond of saying. "I'd rather be blinded out than bust out on a stupid play." Not the be all and end all, but I take this into consideration.

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For me if the stakes are low I go in just the opposite direction.

sleepymike said:

That close to the bubble I tend to wait, reminding myself about what a friend was fond of saying. "I'd rather be blinded out than bust out on a stupid play." Not the be all and end all, but I take this into consideration.

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This is the absolute opposite of how you should be playing nearing the bubble. This is one of the most profitable stages of a tournament for the big stacks, they just hammer relentlessly on the short stacks with a wide range of hands and the short stacks just fold themselves into the money and leave themselves no FE. Why we're playing tournaments to just cash is beyond me, unless of course you're playing in a tournament that's massively out of your BR which you won a seat to - I've never understood this logic. Sitting for hours to min cash is soul crushing, I'd rather bust earlier to have a chance of running deep.

Making a profitable shove isn't stupid play and I'd always opt for a profitable shove if and if it causes me to bubble, that's fine.

ramdeebam said:

Making a profitable shove isn't stupid play and I'd always opt for a profitable shove if and if it causes me to bubble, that's fine.

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Yes if shove profitable need to do and not wait until the blinds eat, but to enter the ITM and immediately knock out the tournament.

Normal players want to play on the final minimum and maximum to win.
Well, NIT always understandable, it is difficult to understand as much as possible before risking ITM.

wanderingthehall said:

I personally wouldn't shove with less than a high ace or a pair.

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dealio96 said:

I personally wouldn't shove with anything less than A10o, any mid pair and up my money is most certain in the middle. I know technically with KQs and 10bbs your money is supposed to be in but when I'm close to the bubble I sometimes throw it away.

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jj20002 said:

KQ is not good hand to shove, and worse in early position, actually with your stack, more than 10 bb, i would fold this hand, still has more than 20 hands to play and just 8 places to make itm, so no hurry here, i think it wasn´t the best decision,

if you were less than 3bb, then you could shove but you weren´t so bad, maybe if yoou fold every hand you were made itm

well, better luck next time

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Dee Dee said:

Personally I would shove this hand with 11bbs from middle to late position, I might drop it in early position though. It's a good hand and you are flipping with all pocket pairs except QQ,KK,AA, and the only Ax hands you are a dog against are AQ and AK.

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So all of you would wait for good PP VS shoving with KQ??
Lets say you do get KK or AA, and shove your 10BBs and only get called by 9Ts, and lose to it!!

Which is going to piss you off more!?

It's not just a matter of your hand. If, for example, your entire table is playing tight and waiting for the bubble to break, you can shove a much wider range than if you have big-stacked players still to act who have already shown that they will call shoves fairly wide.

You make a good point kidkvno1.

el_magiciann said:

I think shoving KQ is a mistake, could wait for A high, or any pair, 11 bb is not the worst stack you can have on bubble and you could cash some money..

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Would you consider shoving A7o a better move here?

A7o is better than KQs yes.

shoving with KQ has always lead to dissapointment for me.

gotta be A9o or better for me to shove short stacked.