Short stack situation - live NL Hold'em tourney

  • Thread starter Nothing_Personal
  • Start date
N

Nothing_Personal

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Total posts
3
Chips
0
Situation: Live NL Hold’em tournament is down to 20 players. You are 16th in chips with ~11 BBs left. Chip leader has ~35 BBs. Average stack is ~20 BBs. Top 10 make the final table and are in the money.

Do you either fold or shove all in on any hand you see until getting to near 20 BBs? What about later position if everybody folds---is a ~5BB raise near the button OK in that situation? Agree with this chart?-- http://www.pushfoldcharts.com/fullring/#bb10
 
T

theevildub

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Total posts
138
Chips
0
If you have pocket AA KK or QQ, i would DEFINITEY push. If you have AK AJ AQ, JJ 1010, i would flat call. You will get a LOT of chips if you hit the flop because the blinds are getting so big, it will definitely pay off.

However ... you have no idea how many times i flopped a set, and lost to runner runner full house. (i had 10 10, flop was 10 4 K. Opponent had JK. Turn K, river J). Anything can happen in this stupid game, so just play smart ... but dont be afraid to gamble if your chips are getting VERY low.

Good Luck
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,596
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
It'd help to provide even more specific info. than what you've given us here...
ie., make up a hand history scenario... give us the stack sizes of the other players on the table

Question for you:
Why are you considering opening to 5bb's pre while on the button with an 11bb stack instead of just going allin? (what are you hoping or trying to accomplish by doing so?).

fwiw, I strongly disagree with evildub's reply but will get into that if &/or when you answer my question first.
 
danndourado

danndourado

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Total posts
64
Chips
0
Its very hard to gamble with 11bb! You have to press the bubble! In my opinion, several players become very passive near the bubble, afraid to involve in a bad beat and lost the chance to be in the money, so you HAVE to press to steal blinds and breath a little longer in the game :)

Good luck!
 
N

Nothing_Personal

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Total posts
3
Chips
0
Responding to Poker Orifice...

Tournament down to 2 tables, not sure who is sitting at the tables yet --- this group is generally a knowledgeable poker crowd --- and play was certainly on the tight side as the field got cut down to 2 tables.

The reason I wonder about raising to 5 BBs as opposed to shoving all 11 BBs in is that I wouldn't necessarily be risking all chips on that single hand; it probably leads to me going all in if I get called or re-raised, but not necessarily; also, if I go all in with 11 BBs and get called, the caller has a very strong hand (unless they have a very short stack), which makes AQ, JJ, TT, 99 (all hands I would raise with if first to act) vulnerable. If I am raising with AA, KK, AKs -- those are hands I want to get called or re-raised with so I think raising 3-4 BBs makes more sense with those. Obviously, I need to at least steal some blinds early to stay competitive. So it seems like with the best hands (AA, KK, AKs, QQ), raising 3-4 BBs is better than shoving all in, next level down (JJ, TT, AQ, etc.) going all in is reasonable. Raising with weaker hands depends on position, being first to act, other chip stacks.

Thoughts?
 
teepack

teepack

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Total posts
2,317
Awards
1
Chips
14
Absolutely no reason to raise 5BBs when you have an 11BB stack. Why are you leaving any chips behind? Are you going to fold to a re-raise? If it folds to you in late position as you say, you either shove or fold.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,596
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Absolutely no reason to raise 5BBs when you have an 11BB stack. Why are you leaving any chips behind? Are you going to fold to a re-raise? If it folds to you in late position as you say, you either shove or fold.

UNLESS some of the players are not very knowledgeable and actually won't read into it that while sitting with 11bb's & only raising say 2.2 - to- 3x bb would practically always mean this is the very top of your range (because if you had AK, AQ, AJ, ... A2s, KQ, KJs, 33 - TT , etc. etc. You'd be just open-shoving).

Other factors to consider when we're short (as in 10-15bb's) is what we've been doing prior to the hand in question. ie. if we've been open-shoving a couple times each orbit or say 'always' when it's folded to us and we're sitting in SB or BTN or CO... then for sure just always open-shove again as we're likely to get looked up alot lighter.


Oh & fwiw, I'd hope we're never raise/folding pre on that stack... especially if we actually opened for close to half our stack for 5bb's (we'd be getting better than 3to1 on the call in that spot.. probably close to 4to1 with antes involved).
 
smallfrie

smallfrie

Lucky Ducky
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
2,661
Awards
2
US
Chips
153
This tournament is what I like to refer to as a crap shoot tournament. Everyone is relatively short and even the chip leader is not in a great position. I think in this situation I would be in push fold mode earlier than normal maybe 15bbs stack because there are going to most likely be a lot of push fold stacks to your left that may be looking to get it all in light and because everyone is relatively short I would not be looking to fold a normal raise to a re-raise and depending on the actual stack sizes to my left I might be in push-fold mode even if I doubled. If everyone to my left in a folded to me hand does not have a playable stack regardless of my stack size I am still going to be in push fold mode.

The blind and ante situation is going to play a factor in how willing I am to steal as well.
 
N

Nothing_Personal

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Total posts
3
Chips
0
Results

So here's what happened...

With 20 players left, we were split into 2 tables of 10. I didn't have much specific information on the players at my table of 10, but based on the way the tournament had gone, the play was generally tight, very few opening callers, lots of folds after a standard opening raise of 2.5-3.5x BB. I have 11 BBs, chip leader has 35 BBs, average stack size is ~20 BBs. Top 10 make final table and are in the money.

First hand dealt -- I am UTG+2. Chip leader is in BB. There are 2 other large stacks to my left (UTG+3 and CO) along with the shortest stack remaining on the button. UTG and UTG+1 fold. I have AQo. I was a little uncomfortable with this having 7 players to act behind me, but I'm running behind and figure . I open with a raise of 5 BBs. All fold to BB, who puts me all in without hesitating. I call and pray to not see AA, KK, or AK. He turns over KQo. My hand holds up and I double up.

I make it to final table. Here's how it ended.

5 players left. Blinds are 4K and 8K. I have 125K. Chip leader is directly to my left with ~210K. The 3 other players have ~190K, ~130K, and ~100K. Chip leader has played somewhat loose-aggressive but I've also seen him fold twice pre-flop at the final table after being re-raised----I've seen him call an all-in 4 BB shove when he was in BB with 86o heads up and I've seen him reraise a UTG 2x BB raise and then call a reraise with 77 (he then flopped a set and won that hand). I think you have to put him on a wide range of possible hands when he raises. I am UTG with AKo. I raise to 24K. He reraises me to 74K. All others fold to me. So there is 110K in the pot, it's 50K to call and my remaining stack is now 101K. It's obviously possible he has AA or KK, but the way he has played and the range of possible hands tells me to assign that a small chance. If he has QQ-66, I'm something like an average 44/56 dog. If he has AKs, he's a slight favorite. AKo we're obviously tied. AQ-AT or KQ-KJ I'm a big favorite---and I think those hands are possible with him. I thought calling was out of the question at this point. If I shove, small chance he folds but he most likely calls the additional 51K if he's thinking at all about pot odds.

I shove all-in. He calls and flips over 88. I lose and finish 5th.

Interested in others' thoughts.
 
Organize a Home Poker Game
Top