Second nuts river raises

T

theresets

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Got into an argument with my friend earlier today. He said raising the second nuts can never be a bad strategy on the river. I disagree. Thoughts?
 
George Lewis

George Lewis

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Never? That is a bit strong. The most obvious example is the guy turns over the nuts before you decide what to do. Then it clearly is not wise to raise him. That said I would guess he is getting at the point that many players lose value by not raising here because they fear the one hand that they can't beat. In that regard he has a point.
 
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JKKeys45

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Depends what the run out and bets on other streets are. Hard to say never a bad idea.

How about, you have the Vornicu, Obst hand from wsop ME Episode 1? Granted it's the 3rd nuts, but if you're Obst are you really raising? You're only getting called/raised by better, so it's not a bluff catcher.
 
SuzdalDEcor

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If the opponent does not have a range with a nuts, the bet with the second nuts may be is a very good game. But If the opponent has a range with nuts, bet with the second nut - very bad game. For example, in some situations with the cards 3 3 Q Q T on the board our bet with the hand 66 will always have +EV
 
PHX

PHX

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Never is a strong word. I would say usually is right to raise but there are some cases it is better to just call. A lot of 4 card flush and straight instances come to mind where I might just call.
I once just called with quads to a river 3 bet and was right opponent river quads as well in a plo8 game. The way the hand played out he had the nuts in his range
 
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mugge47

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I think it can actually be risky to raise the second nut on the river because the probability someone else is beating you with the best hand is super high. It is fine to gain information about the other player through raising the second nut, but if the other player re raises too strongly it may be time to rethink the power of the second nut.
 
strodawg

strodawg

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I never heard of the term second nutz

Got into an argument with my friend earlier today. He said raising the second nuts can never be a bad strategy on the river. I disagree. Thoughts?

The nutz is the best hand on that draw no one else can beat. so I don't see how there can be a second nutz. so I guess I agree with you say it bad stratagy reraising on hand that cant beat the nutz. Though if your trying to make a bluff maybe it is good for him. all depends on how confident one is with their own hand.
 
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CardDead711

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Never say never, never say always...
Like everything else in Poker, it all depends, there are no absolutes. I think it depends on the player your playing against, the previous action on previous streets, and what you put you opponent on. So, sometimes a raise is good, and other times it would not be. There is so much information available, or lack of information that making the perfect decision all the time is impossible. Just make the best decision you can with the information you have at that moment and hope for the best. Constantly adjust to the situation, or make your opponent adjust to you.
Good luck.
 
yelmopoker01

yelmopoker01

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Got into an argument with my friend earlier today. He said raising the second nuts can never be a bad strategy on the river. I disagree. Thoughts?

I believe that raising, playing more aggressively is a way that in the medium / long term is much better than calling, always looking to seize the opportunities. That way, I have the vision that you should raise the most of the time, preferably against a few players.

So that's it, GL on the tables !!!
Yelmopoker01 :)
 
TeUnit

TeUnit

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if you look at the villans ranges, sometimes on the river if you bet, there is almost nothing that they will call with, however sometimes the villans will bluff with the same hand
 
Jim Brown

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It always depends on other factors. There are wildly different second-nut hands even. It's entirely different holding the second nut flush on a 4-flush unpaired board or the nut full house losing only to quads.
 
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