S&G Chip Leader Strategy

Scenario:

10 man no limit hold em S&G
everyone starts with 2000 chips

Lets say you run your count up to 8000, but there are still 8 or 9 people at the table.

Is it smarter to just fold almost every hand or to get in on pretty solid hands and try to put people out?

What are your strategies for when you are leading the count in a s&g

Generally, I think it depends on the size of the blinds. With the big stack, you can gain an advanyage in many situations. But you have to ask yourself "Does the size of the blinds make it worth risking the lead?"

The early chip lead in an SnG is kind of a tricky situation. I've failed to cash after have the early 2-1 chip lead just as many times as I've come from last to win it. Another "It depends" answer.

How can you go from 2000 to 8000 chips with only 1 or 2 players eliminated? That would near impossible since there are only 20,000 chips to start with.

Very easy to do so - at least 2 players will also have under 1000 chips.

With that lead, depending on the blind size, you could just open-push any 2 cards, since this will be a +EV move for you. Course, the first time you double someone up, you can revert back to your normal style...no sense being a total donkey here.

Play your game! Get in to cheap hands, avoid all in confrontations preflop unless you have AA KK , etc, and mop up when you hit solid on the flop and the desperate mid pair guy goes all in.

If you have 8k with most people still in, Id expect you to have 12-16k by the time it is down to 3. More money doesnt mean make bad calls, but it does mean play more hands and give yourself more chances to knock people out.. if it happened that quickly, blinds are probably low enough that its not worth stealing them.... plus short stacked players are a BITCH to steal from, because they tend to go all in with A + anything...

If you make a move preflop make sure you have something you can call their all in with.

As Stick says it depends on your reads of the other players, position, cards, etc. Given all that you should try to bully the short stacks to establish a positive table image. It usually pays off.

tighten up PF out of position but loosen up and play aggressively in position. After the flop bet, raise, or fold: NEVER CALL

With that big of chip lead fold and only play the monster hands and your blinds. Let the other jockey for position and take notes. 8000 chips is a monster lead and you really don't have to do much after that until the table thins out.

BKrywko1 said:

Very easy to do so - at least 2 players will also have under 1000 chips.

With that lead, depending on the blind size, you could just open-push any 2 cards, since this will be a +EV move for you. Course, the first time you double someone up, you can revert back to your normal style...no sense being a total donkey here.

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This is definitely one way to go; and I think a good strategy overall. I was on the receiving end of this technique at the final table of a freeroll a few weeks back. The chip leader had 2-10x anyone else, most players only had M values of around 3. Chipleader and was pushing all-in every single hand. I eventually took a stand with AJ and ran into QQ... go figure

I need some help with some terms I've heard recently. +EV means positive expected value right? If you were to make this decision 100 times then you would profit most of the time?

What is M value? Is it something do with the relation between your stack and the blinds?

M-ratio (from Wikipedia):
In no-limit or pot limit games the ratio of stack to the blinds and/or antes. For example 8-way in a no limit game hold'em game with blinds of $50/$100 and an ante of $10 a stack of $23,000 has an M-ratio of 100. To further clarify, M = $23,000 / [$100 + $50 + ($10 * 8)] = 100. The term was coined by poker author Paul Magriel.


It's an indication of how many orbits you can still last in the game without winning anything, if you were to fold every hand.

loopmeister said:

M-ratio (from Wikipedia):
In no-limit or pot limit games the ratio of stack to the blinds and/or antes. For example 8-way in a no limit game hold'em game with blinds of $50/$100 and an ante of $10 a stack of $23,000 has an M-ratio of 100. To further clarify, M = $23,000 / [$100 + $50 + ($10 * 8)] = 100. The term was coined by poker author Paul Magriel.


It's an indication of how many orbits you can still last in the game without winning anything, if you were to fold every hand.

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Yep. The only thing to keep in mind is that M is based on a point in time, not over time. What I mean is that knowing you can make 100 orbits is usually good enough at the time it is used but in the long run is mis-leading because you won't be playing 100 orbits at the current blind level. So M will need to be watched over time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking M at all for its purpose.

Just what I thought was interesting is that I once saw a formula published somewhere that incorporated time levels and tournament speed into the calculation. So if you were the world's tightest rock (e.g. would only call with suited AA ), if you never played another hand in the tourney, how long would you last before being blinded/anted out. If I ever find it, I will post it for feedback.

My strategy gor playing the big stack depends on the table. sometimes i will run over the table , other times i will let the other players kill each other. most of the time i try to see a flop for as cheap as i can.
but you need to vary your play some. not just push with a great hand.

harrington talks about the M factor in his books. if your the big stack your M factor shouldn't be that big of a deal. but it will be for the other players.

Jack Daniels said:

Just what I thought was interesting is that I once saw a formula published somewhere that incorporated time levels and tournament speed into the calculation. So if you were the world's tightest rock (e.g. would only call with suited AA ), if you never played another hand in the tourney, how long would you last before being blinded/anted out. If I ever find it, I will post it for feedback.

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Good grief! My mental arithmetic is so bad that I usually just divide the stack by the BB... As you say, it's only good for the moment.

I use it to decide whether I should be looking to make a move NOW, or whether I can afford to sit through another set of blinds. Of course, if the blinds are about to increase before they reach you, you should calculate the M based on those blinds, not the current ones.

loopmeister said:

Good grief! My mental arithmetic is so bad that I usually just divide the stack by the BB... As you say, it's only good for the moment.

I use it to decide whether I should be looking to make a move NOW, or whether I can afford to sit through another set of blinds. Of course, if the blinds are about to increase before they reach you, you should calculate the M based on those blinds, not the current ones.

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I guess the little value I see in that other formula is more for when you are a mid-range stack and getting a really bad run of cards. If you're at an aggressive table, it is hard to make moves. So by knowing how long you can last from an overall tournament perspective will also play into your decisions about getting frisky and trying to make moves with substandard hands in raised pots. Obviously I don't put too much weight on this as I don't have the formula readily available. But I do think it is an interesting concept that adds one more variable to consider, if so inclined.

wow 8000 chip leader,
ive never got that lucky, but if i did,
i would want to take everyone out.

i got 3rd once, but never had more then 3000 chips in a sng.

Play selective aggression.....perhaps stealing when your sb or on the button when the blinds are acutally worth it...besides that your basically going to donk off your chips if you don't play the same way you played when you started the tourney..

To be honest I wouldnt change my style that much even with a chip lead that big, the only change i might make is i might play a few more drawing hands without the risk of me damaging my stack to much by doing so.