This is a discussion on River Hand Quiz with Collin and Katie: Fold, Call, Or Raise? (VIDEO) within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Poker section; It's time for another poker hand quiz! This time focusing on what you should do on the river. Collin Moshman and Katie Dozier quiz us
River Hand Quiz with Collin and Katie: Fold, Call, Or Raise? (VIDEO)
It's time for another poker hand quiz! This time focusing on what you should do on the river. Collin Moshman and Katie Dozier quiz us on five different hands. And you must decide: do you Call, Raise, or Fold? Get four right and you are a Certified River Decision Expert!
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fundiver199, sharipov8090, Ventoman777, Andrew Popov, Miguel Chacon, rdwr33 liked this post
Great quiz. I got the 1st, 2nd, and 4th hands correctly. I chose to fold on hand 3 but Colin and Katie disagreed. My call was also correct because they went on to lose the hand So, is this a score of 3 1/2?
Im doing this in real time wile i watch the video
i miss the last one 3/4. I really think that shoving there with Tpair with paired board is too louse,i guess im lousing some value at the river.
some of my pre-flop and turn decisions would be different, but I do the same in 3/4 of these hands, the hand number 3 (AJ) I would fold most of time, because big blind range, have a lot of 7x, and he bet high in the river, and I don't see a bluff in this situation
Would have made the same river decisions as the quiz, but I think 1 and 3 have pretty large mistakes before the river.
For #1 how are you not firing that turn? Betting flop and checking turn seems pretty bad, I'd say bet twice > ch back flop > bet flop ch turn.
For #3 we opened UTG and got a call from the blinds, we're in a pretty classic wa/wb spot so why on earth are we betting twice? Personally I check back this flop 100% of the time but I can see arguments for bet flop check back turn. Although I do mostly play cash and given this guy showed up with K7o (lol wtf) shows that maybe this is just a massive whale and we just need to take him to value town. Although if he's that bad he has a lot more 7x so idk. Either way would like to hear your detailed thought process for why you're betting two streets here.
i would have fold the 1 and 2 and i would had called the 3 and 4,i guees im taking the wrong desitions on river.
I dont like calling with A high unless the player is bluffing a lot,and with a Tpair with a good kicker i like more calling tham raising and even more with the board paired like hand 3 and 4,i guees im not taking into consideration the sizing off oponents to either call them or raise them in 2 spots very similar like hands 3 and 4.
Don't wanna be a dick, but where I can find Katie Dozier's credentials? Her bet sizings look like how I used to bet in 2011. Half pot on A77? yikes.
I got 3/4, folded to large donk on the river. I would much rather call with Tx or even 5x pair, blocking full house. Never calling with ace, especially with J diamond.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the way of thinking and sizings either (like preflop, minraise 45bb deep from UTG+2).
But keep in mind the audience of the quiz. Reckon for most CC members this way of thinking is already a huge step forward. First you need to understand the more fundamental concepts before you move on to more details like what sizing is best, what are blockers etc.
So keep up the good work, would be great to see some higher level content coming too, but as a beginning training video this definitely fits the purpose!
I guessed 3/4 correctly, the 4th was a call in my book, but I would like to go through these hands and start a discussion about them if possible. Lot's of things for players to learn from them.
Ok, let's start
1st hand, seems like an ok call. If we take odds into consideration, there are plenty of bluffs and it seems that we can safely call here.
I would like to point out, that not having Qd here is very important, as it means there are a lot more possible QXd bluffs in V's range.
2nd hand - is a good example of why it's not a super good idea to flat strong hands from BU. It seems that, with 2 overs, you have a reason to call and see the turn, but it turns out to be a waste of chips. More often then not, this will be the case, and I don't see too many flops where AQ hits super hard, on which CO can lose most of his money to make this profitable. Either raise pre, or fold flop. THe way it was played, easy fold.
3rd hand, I think is also fine. There are a lot of missed draws, like FD, maybe sometimes BB goes tricky and calls flop with 89, picks up another draw that missed on the river. Not many Ax hands he can have can beat us, so call is in order.
However, I have to point out that in micro stakes, river donk bets and raises are 9/10 times for value, not bluffs. That is something to take into consideration regarding the stakes and the buy in.
4th hand - I believe that c-bet is mandatory. Short stack in the BB, huge chance he missed completely, if you check back, you give him a free card to hit 6-outter or something. That being said, when BB leads, it seems 9 hit him. And that is understandable considering that defending range should be fairly wide.
Calling the turn is also mandatory cause of the size of V's bet and the odds we are getting. Shoving river is not what I like, question is, what do we get a call from that we beat? I'd say that all better hands call, all worse fold. So it's risky to raise here to win the same you would with a call.
Also, would like to know, what is river decision if river is 8- where BB bets min like he did here?
I caught the 2 hand (Fold) and the 4th (Raise-allin). I missed the 1st and 3d. The first is a bit strange. This 33% donk bet is weird. If he wanted to push us out of the hand, why not >=50% or 2/3 of the pot?
Very good tutorial especially for the beginners. Here is my thoughts on the quiz:
1. In this situation I would probably fold, because even pair of 3's of the opponent could kick me off.
2. Fold, its clear hear
3. I would call also and lose Sometimes its really hard to predict that the someone got three of a kind
4. Raise but the opponent would bet lets say 500 then I would probably fold like the previous hand
I would play a bit different the some spots like a different bet sizes and so. But my answers are
#3 Naah idk you just have to call. I often just check the turn in hands like this. The reason is that if the opponent call the turn it's often 7, A or diamond. We are blocking aces and diamonds and if the river is total blank we could value bet it and if the opponent raise the river after our check it's often easy call. Non-paired boards where is many draws I often bet the turn as well but I think for the board like this it's often check in my gamebook. It's fine when you are as deep but when you are much shorter people should think more about the board and not only the hands and what people often do in videos like this with AQ etc.
#4 I would also raise. Sometimes opponents just donks the nuts like that and he has more T's in the range when call 8bb but the shoving is profitable.
Calling is the worst poker action in poker, you should raise or fold more often than call, but you cannot say that any call is bad, because there are many situations in which calling is the only option.
re: Poker & River Hand Quiz with Collin and Katie: Fold, Call, Or Raise? (VIDEO)
A fun activity here and a good way to see how ones poker skills match up to the masses.
Hand 1 – I would call
A big chance that villain has AT or Axs with a draw that did not hit on the river. I think the chances of a split pot are great since there has been no aggression to make me think otherwise.
Hand 2 – I would fold
I would give this one to villain, although the bet does feel like a bluff or a monster set (888) disguised to look like one. Either way, I do feel uncomfortable not being the aggressor here. On the flop, I would have raised villain’s c-bet to see where I stand in the hand. Now, there is not much to go on here.
Hand 3 – I would fold
It feels as if villain just won the lottery with that bet. From the play, it looks like he was hoping for something or just slow playing a monster flop. Whichever one it is, I would not feel great loosing that much of my stack on a hero call, hoping it is a bluff.
Hand 4 – A small raise
It appears that villain has Ax and is hoping to get a little pay day here. It feels like I have the better kicker and would return the favour of trying to get a little payday. If he re-raises, then I fold L.
I did well with some differences in reasoning. Like my small raise on hand 4 to get paid by villain.
at first as the kick but high this in my hand and messa with 2 pairs I increase
the second like I missed nothing was right fold
the third only pay the bet but not increase
on Wednesday if my opponent does not increase if I increase the pot
1st hand - first thing I would do would raise 3bb, double raise opens the possibility for another player to pay with small cards, in the end I would go all in because it is unlikely that K or J just paid for my raise.
2nh hand-fold, reason, the opponent has raised 2.5bb behind me, probably has strong cards or hit a pair so it's not worth it to play a hand like this.
3rd hand-call, the opponent is in a position to attack, assuming he has hit a big card A with a big kicker or as you can see he has hit three of them.
The 4th hand was again supposed to be a 3bb raise, two opponents in front of us with the same chips as us, attacking an opponent who has twice less chips than us, and the nqa flop should have been raised when you did not play and give it a chance to get him a card on a turn or river.
In my opinion I would play some hands differently -I think the CB on the flop was very big and betting 1/3 is better- but in general if we consider that we are playing vs. recreational our decisions are very simple.
1. bb defend range is all pp and Kx and Jx combos.
Flop can be a check depending on villains defend range stats... and if you think you are good on river, then a call is not most +EV... you can actually click it back to make all chops fold. No pp calls, and k or jack will jam so you fold.
2. You neglect to factor in ranges are fare wider since there is an ante... flatting is not best option in that situation imo. That's not tight, that's weak tight.
You allow blinds to complete lots of times also because of the pot odds.
How does a flop call make any sense if you are going to check the turn and fold the river?
You are floating with over cards and you q may not even be good.
If you are going to call the flop why are you checking back the turn when villan checks????
That's auto bet 1/3 pot on turn when they check. What would you do if you had a J there.. you check turn as a trap?
A little inconstant in the logic there if you going to flat pre... way to passive I think
3. Why is flop standard cbet.... what worse hands call?
you have jd... you block lots of diamonds combos that contain Jd.
And for those reasons, river is snap fold.
You opened utg so all Ax is in you range... only a 7x, AT or 55 donks river like that. Your river call efficiency is going to get smashed with these spots if you don't think it through properly and pay off by thinking Ace high can call there.
4. Brah.... this is bad.... "Checking back with show down value"
In #1 you said standard flop c bet and now you say check in this one.... I'm sorry but this makes no sense.
"So many worse hands that are going to call there"....
Are you sure about that??
RIVER JAM IS SUICIDE MISSION!!!!
please tell me what worse hands call you on that board...
you are only getting snapped off better hands and all worse hands snap fold.
Sorry guys, that hand analysis seems a little off....
Great video but I think it should have included some range analysis to assist in determining what the next move should be but I agreed with every play except not checking behind on the turn with the AJ. That seemed like a spot with a marginal made hand where a check behind controls the pot and you have a much smaller river bet coming. I know the flop seemed pretty safe but there were a lot of 7's in the BB's range. I know that it is less likely that BB has a 7 because there are 2 on the board but he was calling the flop with something, it would seem like a weaker ace or a diamond draw (which you have a blocker for) and I totally get that you don't want lemike to get there for free. Could you add some discussion on what ranges you have your opponents on in these videos?
~ Strategywithout tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tacticswithout strategy is the noise before defeat ~ Sun Tzu
greetings I almost always do the same in these hands since it is better to give strength to the hands .. in the first obvious hand that is call raise 2.5 bet and see how the hand develops .. in the second it is simply automatic fold .. sometimes not all hands can call depending on how many players come in ... but very good video co-con with them a lot ... you learn something and you rectify hands that you did not do before when it is time to call or fold
4 for 4 all the calls were pretty standard i thought
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