Right play?

Sunday I played in a tourny at a local bar. No limit holdem and I had made final table. The blinds were 400-800 and i was two to the left of the big blind and had 4000 in chips and was last in chip count with 7 people still in the game. I got pocket 4's and was folded to me, I called the blind and everyone else folded up to the blinds. The small blind called and the big blind a good and slightly agressive played raised 2000. Knowing the blinds were going up to 500-1000 in the next couple hands I debated and went all in hoping to have everyone fold. The small blind folded and the big blind (who had me covered with almost three times my stack) called. I showed my 4's and he showed big slick off suit. The flop came and he hit an ace and I went out 7th. I love his play and would do the same thing but I'm wondering did I do thing right thing or should I have folded his raise. Yall's thoughts?

not that it makes a difference here, but I think open shoving is your only play in that situation.

Yeah, when you're that low pick your place and push. With fours there you'd hope for a steal or fold. You can often pick out the inexperienced players by which ones are trying to limp. Play enough and you'll see them waste a lot of chips.

you played it mostly right...shoulda shoved all in pre flop being as low...goood job making the final table:icon_salu

Well brddgg, let me start off by saying that I am a more conservative player. Wouldn't your chip stack have had 2800 had you folded through the blinds? Pocket 4's to me is not an ideal hand to go out on.

I feel that folding that hand, which is weak in my opinion, would have been much more advantageous. You now are still in play, others may go out before you, and you may yet receive a better hand. 4's to me is just not a hand to put tournament life on the line.

From what you said, the blinds were close approaching so you felt the need to double up/increase etc. before the blinds themselves increased. Completely understandable and I can see where the pressure would mount to make that move, however I think that calling the blind with the Pocket 4's is what makes your play wrong. Folding those, surviving the blinds, albeit losing more than 25% of your stack, you would have seen maybe 5-6 more hands.

Verdict: The pocket 4's would have been an ideal hand to limp in on when the blinds were much smaller, however during Final Table play, your already in the money, it would have been much better to see a few more hands, let some of the other players go at it while you reap the rewards. Its simply surviving until the next up in prize money and that Call really cut your life short, quite unnecessarily.

With big slick you were gonna get a call no matter what. I would have either folded or shoved. Being out of position, I might have folded. But you being last in chips with 5 BB your only move was a shove. Limping only gives others a chance to see a cheap flop and beat you.

lektrikguy said:

With big slick you were gonna get a call no matter what. I would have either folded or shoved. Being out of position, I might have folded. But you being last in chips with 5 BB your only move was a shove. Limping only gives others a chance to see a cheap flop and beat you.

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I understand he is last in chips but why is the shove his only move?

Thanks everyone. At first when I went out it seemed like I did the right play but on the way home it kept nagging at me. I started thinking that flat calling was the last thing I should have done. But hind sight is 20/20 right? Just wanted to confirm my thoughts. maybe next time

PokerProBetZip said:

I understand he is last in chips but why is the shove his only move?

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Raising at this point is no good, if you miss the flop you only then have 2BBs left. 2BBs is not good to have, if you get called you have no chips to back your raise with. Also you again are beat by over cards.
Limping is no good, in doing so you will only have 4BBs left, you are beat by any over card. Limping also shows you have a weak hand.
It's shove or fold.

Does that help...
I hope i got that right.

I would open shoving.

But...

Depend in how the stacks were and if the money was so important.

Brddg21 --
I agree with those that said to SHOVE pre-flop. If you folded, you're down to 2500 next time thru the blinds (if they increased), and no threat to anyone. With 4000, the big-stacks would still need to think twice before calling you.

While 44 isn't a great hand, it's better than the one you're likely get next, before you're forced to bet the BB.

All that being said, don't feel bad, b/c the BB would probably have called your all-in bet with his BigSlick, and nothing would have changed. Consider it a free lesson.

You played it like I would have

Really, the only choice you have is to fold or shove. When the blinds are that high compared to your stack and you only have 2 hands until your BB, you gotta think that the 4's are going to be your best shot at doubling up or stealing the blinds. I feel you played it correctly. Hopefully 7th paid something!

kidkvno1 said:

Raising at this point is no good, if you miss the flop you only then have 2BBs left. 2BBs is not good to have, if you get called you have no chips to back your raise with. Also you again are beat by over cards.
Limping is no good, in doing so you will only have 4BBs left, you are beat by any over card. Limping also shows you have a weak hand.
It's shove or fold.

Does that help...
I hope i got that right.

Click to expand...

Yeah I got that. The thing I'm questioning here is that the focus seems to be on going all in. I think simply folding would be the better move.

It's a push/fold problem, so you shouldn't call but debate wether to push or fold. Remember, pocket pairs play awful postflop.
Secondly you have to remember that 4's is not a good hand, you're dominated by any other pair(except2's and 3's) and you're racing against overcards. Then you have to ask yourself what your opponents will call with, so you can attempt a semi-bluff steal. If your opponent will call you with most face cards and 5's or higher, then pushing is less intresting. If your opponents are very tight, then pushing anything is a good play in this situation.

I hate small pocket pairs. To bad that third one didn't come up for you. I'll usually do much better with the big slick than a small pocket pair. Congratulations on getting to the last table and ending 7th. That's something to crow about. lol

I think you played it correctly myself. Although I hate low pairs late you were going to get cvalled no matter what with big slick and you M was very low. Correct play just a shame that Ace came to knock you out.