Re-entry tournaments (seem like rebuys to me)

PurgatoryD

PurgatoryD

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I've been looking at some of the poker tournament schedules in Las Vegas, and for the $100 and under games, every single one that I've found is a re-entry tournament. It's been a while since I've played poker at all... is this the new thing now?

Personally, I don't like rebuy tournaments. They're crazy in the beginning and the larger bankrolls can essentially buy their way past the beginning stages. What about re-entries? Doesn't the same thing happen? These are not multi-day tournaments, so isn't a re-entry essentially the same as a rebuy?

Any hints on how this might change strategy for someone used to no rebuys? I suppose tighten up while things are crazy during the first hour?

Thanks. Any help is appreciated!
 
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RamdeeBen

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They aren't rebuys they are re entry to the tournament and not really similar.

Re entries are completely different to rebuys. If you bust one; and re enter straight after or before the late registration ends and you will rejoin as another entrant at a different table.


They are good for both the recreational players and the better players. Recreational players will keep playing bad thus donating more $$$ to the prize pool. The better players will have an edge so if they run bad and bust they can re-enter the same tournament.
 
MasterOfDisaster

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Totally different like Ram says!
 
Jillychemung

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Rentry tournaments, you pay the rake on every entry whereas rebuys you do not. Typically you get less rentries than you get rebuys. One of the latest twists in bigger tournaments is that you can choose what chip stack to play with, for example, starting stacks are T$40K, you pay/play day 1A and end up with T$38K, pay/play day 1B ending with T$32K, so now you can either buyin again at start of day 2 for starting stack or play with day 1A stack. I suspect play on day 1 will get a lot wilder as this format takes over so bigger tournaments can hit their guarantee.
 
1ofTheFellas

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Many casinos as well that offer re-entry tournaments if there are alternate lists, you will go to the end of the alternate list if you re-enter, where as in a rebuy trny you just sit in your seat and continually buy chips
 
Loonbat

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This has become a trend in the last year or two in live events, even for bigger buyins. Most live events with multiple day 1s now have a re-entry option.
 
PurgatoryD

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OK... I see the difference now. So essentially with a re-entry, the difference from a rebuy is that you:

(1) Repay fees;
(2) Go to the back of the waiting list;
(3) Get reseated.

OK, I think my game can handle that. :) I can even see a huge benefit: if you get knocked out early, you have an opportunity to play again.

How about this situation: if you get knocked out right near the end of the re-entry period (let's say it's one hour), and there is another tournament starting at a card room next door, would it be better to start fresh at the other card room as opposed to buying another entry at the current room?

Starting from the beginning while everyone else has an hour up on you seems like a disadvantage to me. Then again, sometimes just breaking even after an hour isn't so bad. Anyone have any seasoned advice in this area? I seem to remember reading somewhere that re-entry after too much time has gone by is -EV versus using that money to start a fresh tournament.

Thanks again! CC has the most knowledgeable poker players around! :)
 
MasterOfDisaster

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Guess most poker players would be too lazy to walk to another cardroom thus I think most would just re-enter.
 
PurgatoryD

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Guess most poker players would be too lazy to walk to another cardroom thus I think most would just re-enter.

LOL! Well, there is that. I think you're right. I was just wondering from a strictly EV perspective. I'll look into it a little more and see what I can find. Thanks.
 
NeverEnough

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I don't mind. the casino I play at does it. Allows the donks to come back in after they bust in the first 10 minutes b/c they shoved with garbage.

Bigger prize pool FTW
 
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I've been looking at some of the poker tournament schedules in Las Vegas, and for the $100 and under games, every single one that I've found is a re-entry tournament. It's been a while since I've played poker at all... is this the new thing now?

Personally, I don't like rebuy tournaments. They're crazy in the beginning and the larger bankrolls can essentially buy their way past the beginning stages. What about re-entries? Doesn't the same thing happen? These are not multi-day tournaments, so isn't a re-entry essentially the same as a rebuy?

Any hints on how this might change strategy for someone used to no rebuys? I suppose tighten up while things are crazy during the first hour?

Thanks. Any help is appreciated!

Even though the 2 are different there are similarities especially in regards to your question about whether re-entry tourneys are crazy like rebuy tourneys. They can be because some people like to play very aggressive to try and build a big stack knowing then can re-enter and try again if they bust. So if thats something that you don't like then you might not be happy if you end up sitting at a table with an overly aggressive player while reentry period is still going.

Now, the good thing is that unlike a rebuy they have to go and "re-enter" the tournament as a new player and they will be reseated in a new table/seat. So it can be less likely that you will have to deal with them again if they bust.

the pluses for you are the same as a rebuy where you can buy in with a smaller investment into a larger prize pool if you dont re-enter yourself.

I think re-entry tourneys are better than rebuys for players that don't like the crazy rebuy aggressive players since they can be reseated away from you.

If you're the one that rebuys and re-enters then as said before everytime you re-enter you pay the house again.
 
MasterOfDisaster

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Another difference is in a rebuy (+addon) the stacks are typically way and way deeper as in a re-entry.
 
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murrdog

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dont think i like the sound of these tournaments
 
PurgatoryD

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dont think i like the sound of these tournaments

But it appears to the be "norm" now, so I don't think there is much choice. I think it will be OK. I like the fact that there is a reseating process. :)
 
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ssbn743

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You’ve got to be real careful from a +EV perspective with re-entry tournaments.

My local casino allows this for every one of their tournaments and they usually allow 4 full hours (8 levels) though sometimes it will be 2 hours depending on a few variables that I won’t bother naming here.

Consider at $310 buy-in tournament that yields 400BB starting stacks with 30 minute levels. By end of the re-entry period a re-entry stack is 13BB (I see people re-enter here all the time by the way – haha).

Anyway, if we assume that we will re-enter and we average our starting stack, we will be starting with 48-50BB per re- entry at a price of double the entry fee. My local casino runs about a 14% rake which is probably on the high end but…

Let’s assume $260/$40/$10 for our example here with 100 entrants (which probably includes 20-30 re-entries). The prize pool would be $26,000 and 10 would be paid. A 10th place finish would yield ~$988 and 1st place would be ~$8,300; mean cash would be $2,600.

We know a cash only occurs at best 20% of the time – therefore 80% of the time we lose. If we consider 10 tournaments with two entries each would cost us $6200 in buy-ins, if we cash 20% of the time we would return $5200 on average. This also says nothing for the fact that a re-entry stack starts 1/8 as deep as an entry stack which is going to drastically affect our cash percentage.

Now if we did 1 to 3 re-entries for every 10 tournaments the numbers are probably +EV, the only variable being when you cash, when you do not, and how big you cash. But at the end, re-entry events are a sucker bet that attracts lots of suckers.
 
Alekxandrovi3

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Live rebuy tournaments are good that if you are playing against wealthy opponents they play too loose because they can rebuy. They help build a stack of those who is not able to re-login into the tournament.
 
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