rag aces

isohatedis

isohatedis

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i would like to ask the cardschat community advice about MTTs and specifically rag aces or A2-A8.in MTTs when you get shortstacked say around 10BB-15BB.is it a good strategy to push allin with a weak ace in any position or should position be a part of the judgement(if so a big part or not) or should you try to wait for better cards?
i know this is more then 1 question but since all the questins relate to 1 specific topic ye might give me your opinins please.
 
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JMcCabe

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IMO, these are good for rejamming over a late position raiser or someone who has shown they'll fold pre to 3bets, especially when you're in the blinds, as your fold equity usually negates the fact that your often behind when called.

Against a pocket pair higher than your kicker, you're about a 30/70 dog and roughly the same against a better ace. Your 60/40 against Kx hands that call, and flipping against small pockets pairs.

If the table has gotten shorthanded, shoving in almost any position is fine here as well.

I would have disagreed with myself not too long ago, but then I started railing shaundeeb every once and a while on Stars and learned a lot about the value of getting it in with weak aces.
 
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piedmontred

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Well imo you still have alittle time to be picky but 10bb and under it would be time to shove it.
 
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The_Pup

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A very situational question - stack sizes, images etc.

The trouble with a rag ace is that if we get called we are usually in bad shape, and often dominated. At best we are likely to have a coin flip on our hands. I dump the rag ace in early position but will steal from the button/SB when short stacked - we are hoping for the fold and using the ace as insurance in case the villain calls.

A thing to note about rag aces is that A5 is better than A6/7/8 against most hands.
 
Tom1559

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As always it depends on your read of the other players but A rag in late position with a limper and only the blinds to come is an obvious shove if you are short stacked and getting blinded out.
 
isohatedis

isohatedis

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A very situational question - stack sizes, images etc.

The trouble with a rag ace is that if we get called we are usually in bad shape, and often dominated. At best we are likely to have a coin flip on our hands. I dump the rag ace in early position but will steal from the button/SB when short stacked - we are hoping for the fold and using the ace as insurance in case the villain calls.

A thing to note about rag aces is that A5 is better than A6/7/8 against most hands.

this has me a bit intrigued as to why A5 is better then A6/7/8.i for one have never heardthis before.i can although see by holding A5 you have a chance at a run(but if so then A2/3/4 would also be better then A6/7/8by that logic to me).could people please give me some insight into this please?
 
IamRude

IamRude

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this has me a bit intrigued as to why A5 is better then A6/7/8.i for one have never heardthis before.i can although see by holding A5 you have a chance at a run(but if so then A2/3/4 would also be better then A6/7/8by that logic to me).could people please give me some insight into this please?

I would like to know more about this too.

This is what I know so far from using pokerstove:
A5o (42.44%) < A6o (57.56%)
makes sense, cause of better kicker

but

A5 against every other hand (not A6) hold up better than A6.
For Example
A5o vs KQo - 58.06% vs 41.94%
whereas
A6o vs KQo - 57.46% vs 42.54%

really small difference, and I would assume its cause of straight making ability?
be great it someone could provide better insight.
 
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platinumhawk

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You can make a straight with A5 with 3 cards: 234; not so with A6, a7, or A8. That straight possibility makes it a better Ace that the A8-A6, and you are a slight underdog against 22-44.
 
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The_Pup

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Welcome to CC platinimhawk. As you say it is all about straights.

A8 is only better than A3 when we are up against at least one low card, such as 66 or A7, against two high cards we are slightly better with A3. It is worth considering some scenarios to see how this works.

Suppose we are all in and the villain shows TT. If the board pairs our kicker we are no better off - it doesn't matter if it is a 3 or an 8, if we hit trips with our kicker we are ahead but again it doesn't matter if it is a set of 3s or 8s. If we hit a flush with our kicker, again it makes no difference whether it is a 3 or an 8. When it comes to straights there are two things to consider: with A3 we only need three cards for our straight but with A8 we need four; also, because our villain is holding two tens there are two fewer cards that can be dealt that will help us. Even if one of the 'helpful' tens comes down and gives us a straight it gives the villain a full house draw.

Our A3 is about 29% to TT and A8 is about 28%, against KQ we are 57% and 56.5% respectively. This is not enough of a difference to say that A3 should be played and A8 folded. What it does mean is that if we are going to shove steal, resteal or make a desperate call A3 is usually as good as or better than A8 against the sort of hands that the villain would play.

I do not claim that either hand is one we really want to take seriously, but I am sure a lot of players play A8 a lot more than A3 because it looks so much stronger. In reality it only has a big advantage when the villain holds one or more small cards.
 
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RamdeeBen

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I would like to know more about this too.

This is what I know so far from using pokerstove:
A5o (42.44%) < A6o (57.56%)
makes sense, cause of better kicker

but

A5 against every other hand (not A6) hold up better than A6.
For Example
A5o vs KQo - 58.06% vs 41.94%
whereas
A6o vs KQo - 57.46% vs 42.54%

really small difference, and I would assume its cause of straight making ability?
be great it someone could provide better insight.


Wow, I never knew Ace rag was dominating K,Qo so much. I wonder why I'd lose with K,Qo, lol
 
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Lofwyr

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@the pup - or A8 is better against other Ax hands more often as well.

It kind of works out that earlier in an SNG, when stacks are deeper, A2-A5 are superior to A6-A9 or so. As you get late and stacks get short this becomes less true. Mainly because people are going to be shoving a lot and most peoples shove/call-shove ranges include a lot of Ax hands/PPs and far fewer Kx/Qx type hands against which the A2-A5 play better.

@OP - it obviously depends. But if your stack is 10-15bb you can profitably shove any ace in CO/BTN/SB if it's folded to you pretty much. It's actually totally unexploitable to shove A2 in the SB with up to 40 big blinds or something (though not exactly recommend). Larger fields with more top heavy pay-outs make shoving those Ax hands even earlier than the CO a not so bad idea sometimes too.
 
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