P
ph_il
...
Silver Level
So, I know what implied odds are in poker, but I want to make sure I'm applying it correctly during preflop situations vs multiple opponents in MTTs.
1. If I am not mistaken, implied odds are determined by effect stacks. So, against multiple opponents, if I'm getting the implied odds to call from at least one opponent, then a call is correct, right?
Here is an example:
A)
-Hero: posts BB w/ 22 [35 BB stack]
-UTG: Raises to 2BBs to 3BBs [50 BB stack]
-Folds x 3
-MP: Calls 3BBs [11 BB stack]
-CO: Calls 3BBs [13 BB stack]
-Folds x 2
Total Pot: 10.5BBs
Since the odds of hitting a set is 8:1, I'm not getting the pot odds to call preflop at 5.25:1 to call. However, with effect stacks being 35BBs between me and UTG, I can potentially earn more than what the pot odds are giving me at the moment if I hit my set. And as long as I can pick up at least 9+ times the initial raise (since odds of hitting a set is 8:1), then it's a profitable call in the long run, right?
Now, lets say its the same scenario as above, but with a slight change:
B)
-Hero: posts BB w/ 22 [35 BB stack]
-UTG: Raises to 2BBs to 3BBs [22 BB stack]
-Folds x 3
-MP: Calls 3BBs [11 BB stack]
-CO: Calls 3BBs [13 BB stack]
-Folds x 2
Now, the max effective stack is 22 BBs. I'm still not get correct pot odds preflop and now the chance of potentially picking up 9x the initial raise isn't possible since UTG would need at least 27BBs behind. So, is this a fold 100% of the time? Or can calling here be profitable because I can earn 9+ times the initial raise from all 3 of my opponents total if I do hit my set?
Is calling with bad implied odds in multi-way pots profitable in bubble situations if you have a large stack. Lets say in example B, I have 80BBs and the same situation comes up on the FT bubble. Even though I'm not getting correct implied odds, if I do hit, I can potentially bust one the players and if I miss, dropping to 77BBs isn't affecting at all.
What about KO MTTs? Does the potential for picking up a KO bonus affect if a player should call without proper implied odds? Again, if we look at example B, I'm not getting the implied odds to call, but if I do, I can potentially bust 3 players and pick 3x the KO bonus in addition to the extra chips.
I guess my main question is: should I only be making these calls when I'm only getting the proper implied odds to? I feel like if there is a little bit more incentive to call-knocking out short stack and making to FT, picking up KO bonuses, etc, I'll call. Especially if my stack is deep enough to where it's not going to affect me too much. I'm playing a 35BBs very similar to how i play a 32BBs. However, is this poor thinking on my part and in the long run?
Honestly, in both situations, I'm probably not thinking of the implied odds too much. I'm thinking "Hey, I have 22 and I close the action. I have a decent sized stack and if I hit a set, I can pick up a lot of chips. If not, I fold and I have a stack to work with." This might a leak.
1. If I am not mistaken, implied odds are determined by effect stacks. So, against multiple opponents, if I'm getting the implied odds to call from at least one opponent, then a call is correct, right?
Here is an example:
A)
-Hero: posts BB w/ 22 [35 BB stack]
-UTG: Raises to 2BBs to 3BBs [50 BB stack]
-Folds x 3
-MP: Calls 3BBs [11 BB stack]
-CO: Calls 3BBs [13 BB stack]
-Folds x 2
Total Pot: 10.5BBs
Since the odds of hitting a set is 8:1, I'm not getting the pot odds to call preflop at 5.25:1 to call. However, with effect stacks being 35BBs between me and UTG, I can potentially earn more than what the pot odds are giving me at the moment if I hit my set. And as long as I can pick up at least 9+ times the initial raise (since odds of hitting a set is 8:1), then it's a profitable call in the long run, right?
Now, lets say its the same scenario as above, but with a slight change:
B)
-Hero: posts BB w/ 22 [35 BB stack]
-UTG: Raises to 2BBs to 3BBs [22 BB stack]
-Folds x 3
-MP: Calls 3BBs [11 BB stack]
-CO: Calls 3BBs [13 BB stack]
-Folds x 2
Now, the max effective stack is 22 BBs. I'm still not get correct pot odds preflop and now the chance of potentially picking up 9x the initial raise isn't possible since UTG would need at least 27BBs behind. So, is this a fold 100% of the time? Or can calling here be profitable because I can earn 9+ times the initial raise from all 3 of my opponents total if I do hit my set?
Is calling with bad implied odds in multi-way pots profitable in bubble situations if you have a large stack. Lets say in example B, I have 80BBs and the same situation comes up on the FT bubble. Even though I'm not getting correct implied odds, if I do hit, I can potentially bust one the players and if I miss, dropping to 77BBs isn't affecting at all.
What about KO MTTs? Does the potential for picking up a KO bonus affect if a player should call without proper implied odds? Again, if we look at example B, I'm not getting the implied odds to call, but if I do, I can potentially bust 3 players and pick 3x the KO bonus in addition to the extra chips.
I guess my main question is: should I only be making these calls when I'm only getting the proper implied odds to? I feel like if there is a little bit more incentive to call-knocking out short stack and making to FT, picking up KO bonuses, etc, I'll call. Especially if my stack is deep enough to where it's not going to affect me too much. I'm playing a 35BBs very similar to how i play a 32BBs. However, is this poor thinking on my part and in the long run?
Honestly, in both situations, I'm probably not thinking of the implied odds too much. I'm thinking "Hey, I have 22 and I close the action. I have a decent sized stack and if I hit a set, I can pick up a lot of chips. If not, I fold and I have a stack to work with." This might a leak.
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