QQ late in tournament

I was playing a tournament at the Commerce. There were 21 left and I had just managed to win 100K when I spiked a set of 10's on the river. I was approximately 4th in chips with 175K. The button was to my left and the player UTG moved in with 100K. The blinds were at 2000/4000 ante 500. I had just moved to the table but he seemed to be a pretty solid player. The action folded around to me and I called quickly with QQ. The blinds folded and the player flipped over KK and I lost. I was down to 75K and ultimately busted out in 17th. At the time I thought QQ was a no brain call but after thinking about it should I have layed it down? This one is really bothering me. I could have probably coasted to the final table. Help please...

His bet was way to big for you to call. You are only behind to 2 hands, but you are flipping with one other hand. You of course are favorite to any other hand, but you aren't getting good enough odds on your money with 20+x BB call. You want to make sure you get your money in with better odds with a deep stack and a good poker mind.

You may as well overshove instead of calling but I'm not folding. The fact he has open jammed heavily weights his hand away from KK+. Pretty easy/standard call. Also money locked up at top, play to win, not to FT.

+1 to blue

What a horrible shove by him lol.

Reraise all in, in order to isolate the original raiser and ensure that the players still to act behind you are not tempted to also call. There are only two hands that beat you and, logically, you wouldn`t expect the raiser to have either of them.

Holding AA or KK, his more usual line should be to open for a modest raise in order to provoke some action. The open-shove will usually only pick up the blinds, which does not maximise the value of his big hand.

As it happens, he has made an error and in this case he profits by it. Reraising is still the correct play, though. It`s the general principle that counts, not the result in this individual instance.

Man it's tough to fold QQ. I wonder what the chip average was...if you were in 4th with 175k chips and he had 100k with 21 people left, he couldn't have been too low in the chip rankings.
If he was low in chips, you could've potentially made the assumption that he didn't have a monster hand. But if he had a decent stack then who knows. I definitely would've struggled to fold QQ, especially with a chance to knock somebody else out

He shoved 25 bbs in. Most of the hands ppl r shipping with this stack are completely dominated by qq. It's a snap call. You got coolered, that's all. You can't get away. Like blue said, your goal has to be to win the turny.

After busting out from 2 sunday million on stars with qq i learned to to call or go all in pre flop with qq

jaxpaboo said:

His bet was way to big for you to call. You are only behind to 2 hands, but you are flipping with one other hand. You of course are favorite to any other hand, but you aren't getting good enough odds on your money with 20+x BB call. You want to make sure you get your money in with better odds with a deep stack and a good poker mind.

Click to expand...

WTF??!?!?!?!?!

rhunt2323 said:

I was playing a tournament at the Commerce. There were 21 left and I had just managed to win 100K when I spiked a set of 10's on the river. I was approximately 4th in chips with 175K. The button was to my left and the player UTG moved in with 100K. The blinds were at 2000/4000 ante 500. I had just moved to the table but he seemed to be a pretty solid player. The action folded around to me and I called quickly with QQ. The blinds folded and the player flipped over KK and I lost. I was down to 75K and ultimately busted out in 17th. At the time I thought QQ was a no brain call but after thinking about it should I have layed it down?

Click to expand...

lol, no. Better option would've been to reshove to isolate. With no reads this is a snap call, he just played those kings HORRIBLY. With his stack I'm never open shoving because the chances I get called are so low.

Folding a big hand is always a tough choice. But I respect the big folds, and will remember them. Preflop fold QQ? I remember when I should have, didn't, and lost. Watch someone fold a full house, correctly, and you will remember it.

Thanks guys, even if he just made a standard raise and I called, the flop came 3 rags so the money was going in anyways. If I 3 bet the money was going in also. The only chance I had to get away from this hand was preflop after he shoved. Just have to run better I guess.

The issue with that hand is the amount that he bet UTG. you don't bet out of position unless you have a monster. In my opinion, monsters are AK, AA and KK. with QQ after the flop you have very little outs irrelevant of what has come out. if JTK comes out and someone has KK, they're favourite, if JKA comes out, same difference. so your straight draws are bad for starters. all you can hope for is another queen, that's 2 out of 48 cards left. the odds of that happening are low. no good player would go all in with that many blinds pre-flop UTG unless he had a monster.

In my honest opinion, it was a bad call.

IMO i dont think there is a scenario here where you do not get the chips in pre, if he had played the hand normally, ie, raised to 2 - 3x pre flop you are most certainly going to 3 bet with QQ and want to get it in when he has 25 bb's. By him shoving it is a lot weaker and i would never put someone on AA or KK here or even AK for that matter it looks like a scared shove and its not correct to be folding QQ here without a lot of history on the player or a solid read.

You are being results oritentated as well, if he had flipped over 88 / 99 for example you would of been happy with the call but its only because he actually had KK that you are wondering if you should have laid it down

I have noticed almost alwauus when i had QQ somebody had KK,AA so watch out .
strong pair isnt always so strong.
and when you come to new table dont rush have patience and see what type of play they play.

Here is a hand that actually works well for this thread. I made this lay down which led to me winning the tournament for around $7,000! Maybe this type of thinking will help you understand big lay downs and situations!

Notice in the chat I say I should have folded PF!

full tilt poker Game #23741327701: $32,000 Rush Guar (Rebuy) (183313981), Table 472 - 20000/40000 Ante 5000 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:23:36 ET - 2010/09/08
Seat 1: breadman16 (963,000)
Seat 2: Zubi85 (1,787,045)
Seat 3: RMangano (4,101,428)
Seat 4: poke u gently (503,890)
Seat 5: 1618bia (1,062,006)
Seat 7: ChipaJones (5,951,161)
Seat 9: vipaar (3,523,470)
breadman16 antes 5,000
Zubi85 antes 5,000
RMangano antes 5,000
poke u gently antes 5,000
1618bia antes 5,000
ChipaJones antes 5,000
vipaar antes 5,000
ChipaJones posts the small blind of 20,000
vipaar posts the big blind of 40,000
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChipaJones [Qs Qc]
breadman16 raises to 120,000
Zubi85 folds
RMangano folds
poke u gently folds
1618bia folds
ChipaJones raises to 320,000
vipaar has 15 seconds left to act
vipaar has requested TIME
vipaar raises to 720,000
breadman16 has 15 seconds left to act
breadman16: wow
breadman16 folds
ChipaJones calls 400,000
*** FLOP *** [5s Js 9s]
ChipaJones checks
vipaar bets 2,798,470, and is all in
ChipaJones: ugh
ChipaJones has 15 seconds left to act
ChipaJones has requested TIME
ChipaJones: QQ with a spade i know you have AA KK was hoping to reverse ur Q
ChipaJones: nh shoulda folded PF
ChipaJones folds
Uncalled bet of 2,798,470 returned to vipaar
fielderflop (Observer): lmfao - he has AJ at best...with A spades...
vipaar shows [Ah Ad] a pair of Aces
vipaar wins the pot (1,595,000)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,595,000 | Rake 0
Board: [5s Js 9s]
Seat 1: breadman16 folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Zubi85 folded before the Flop
Seat 3: RMangano folded before the Flop
Seat 4: poke u gently folded before the Flop
Seat 5: 1618bia (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: ChipaJones (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: vipaar (big blind) collected (1,595,000)

Sick read, tough fold.

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the size of his bet made the pot odds a definate fold i think , its a beginners mistake and one that gets a lot of people into trouble, work out your hand odds the amount of outs and match them to the pot odds if the the pot odds are more than the hand odds its a call if not it dont matter what you got fold it away

I'm folding. 4th in chips with 43 bb left. Not Calling off more than half my stack when most likely flipping. Especially late.

I tend to want to go all in almost always preflop with QQ and now I guess I realize that is that always the best choice. It just seems like such a great hand to me.

it depends on reads of players ....qq is still a strong hand but you have to play it right in tourney.....running into kk or aa is just a cooler

Easy call with QQ that way I'm totally agree with your play

Its easy to say you would lay down QQ but to put a decent player on KK with a pre-flop bet like that. This is simply a cooler you cannot get away from unless you want to fold your way to the final table, which was probable with your stack. The problem with folding QQ is you may have not found another spot for several orbits and forced to play position only. Hindsight is 20/20 but I say you made the right call (other than possibly going over top to isolate). Good luck in the future on and off the felts.