Push Fold Charts Questions

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paulyd

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http://www.pushfoldcharts.com/fullring/


I have quite a bit of questions about this and in general push/fold.


1. Is playing push/fold according to this chart going to be unexploitable? I had read this is the case.


2. Do you consider these charts to be a bit tight? Example, they do it for 10bb, 8bb, 6bb, 5bb, 4bb, 3bb and 2bb. First off... isn't anything thats 5bb and under pretty much close to the same? I mean looking at the chart, even at 5bb if you are utg minimum hand to shove UTG is 109s. I mean... shouldn't shoving 98s be pretty much automatic here as well? I would say the chart for 10bb and 8bb looks right though im not a math person but i feel like its way too tight at 5bb and under. I mean... are ppl really suppose to not shove certain hands at 6bb as oppose to 3bb or 4bb compared to 2bb? To me, anything thats 5bb and under is pretty much the sa


3. I see at 10bb, if you are utg for example, you are shoving any pair, any ace suited, 109s etc. However... what if you have say 12bb or 15bb utg? To me, any pair shoving all in utg is right up to 15bb even 22. Right or wrong? Also... would A2s be a shoving hand UTG with 12bb? What about 15bb? I feel like pairs you can shove utg with 15bb... but with a2s... its not. Also 109s and J10s would be a fold. However... i feel that KQs would be a shove at 15bb. Or should all of these hands be treated the same as any pocket pair and AK etc? I feel like its good to shove 15bb if you are MP with A2s and 109s and 98s. However... early position, i don't. Thoughts on this? Also would shoving 77 or J10s with say 18bb in MP be standard? I seen quite a bit of players do this at 180 mans where they just open shove as oppose to min raise. The thing is you are risking 18bb to win 2.3bb or so but then again you dont want to min raise with 77 then have to call an all in where you are going to be at best 50/50 unless they are doing this with 22-66. Thing is chart only shows up to 10bb... so is basically it the same as 12bb, 15bb, 18bb or even 20bb? Because i stopped shoving all in UTG with 15bb with say A2s now. However, no issue doing this with 77. But at 18bb... would doing this with 77 still be reckless? Because well someone can have monster and you could min raise then fold. However... what do you do with 22-66 then with 12bb stack, 15bb stack, 18bb stack or 20bb utg or utg+1? I just have hard time folding pocket pair in EP. Usually i just min raise fold unless the reshover has small stack.



4. Related to question 3. But I read a while back you can shove up to 20bb with any pocket pair and its profitable. Thus if you shove 22 UTG with 20bb, its profitable. Is that statement still true or false? That seems to be a bit reckless to me. Even doing this with say 77 or 88 I think its a bit loose. For me it would be a raise then fold if someone with big stack comes over the top.
 
Sil3ntness

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This chart goes up to 20 BBs. It has different ranges than the pushfold website though.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...HE0QWt5elZMUkU4YzVrSlBVZk5EMFE&hl=en_US#gid=0

You will not be shoving 22 for 15 BBs. That would be tournament suicide unless you are big stack bully and everyone else is praying for a min cash on the bubble.

Also if you plug JTs into the Equilab program it is favored over 77.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/poker-tools/equilab-holdem/

JTs = 50.70% (Straights, 2 overcards, flushes, the chance the board goes 8899x etc.)
77 = 49.30%
 
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paulyd

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5. I read 15bb and under, just open shove. Agree or disagree? Of course monsters like aa and kk min raise is good as well. However... what about AK? Is it better to just shove it as oppose to min raise then call if it get reshove? The thing is if u open shove ak with 15bb... then ppl would fold 55 etc but if you min raise, they will come over the top and then you call and its a flip. Of course if they reshove aq, aj, kq etc you want that to happen. But the other thing is it opens up to players 3betting all in with hands like J10s and Q10s and though you are decent favorite, you aren't big favorite when going against aq, aj, a10, ax suited and Kq, KJ etc. Thoughts on this?


6. I read there was actually a program where it tells you if shoving all in is profitable in each position with a certain amount of BB. Can someone tell me what program is this or where i can test this out? I think this is called jenifear spreadsheet? However that is many years ago but is it still valid today? I believe theres also another program or sheet that calculates if its good to call all ins? Such as if someone UTG shoves for 12bb... what hands can you call where its profitable in MP or LP etc. Can someone tell me name of this program or spreadsheet? Also are these sheets/programs... do you just input everyones stack size and then put down who is shoving all in? Or if its you, then it says okay if you shove 15bb in EP with J9s... its profitable but not by much?


7. What is the minimum amount of BB where open shoving is good? I know 15bb and under open shoving is fine. But what about when you have pocket 22 and have say 20bb. I seen players open shove 20bb heads up with 22 and 33 but thats obviously correct since min raise then calling it off is worst right? However i also seen players open shove 20bb effective stack on the button with hands like j10s and j9s. These are profitable shoving with 10bb stack and under and obviously with 15bb stack on the button since its late position but what about 20bb? What about 25bb? The great things about these hands like j10s and j9s is even if you get called, you have at least decent equity if the caller has AK or 88 etc.


8. Is raise folding with anything less than 15bb horrible? I read someone mentioned don't raise fold with 22bb. However that guys a tournament player so if one plays say 180 mans.. that doesn't apply? So raise folding with 16bb would be fine but don't do it with 15bb or less? Or should it always be 22bb minimum? Also would it matter a lot if its mtt vs mtt turbo sng vs turbo mtt?
 
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5. I read 15bb and under, just open shove. Agree or disagree? Of course monsters like aa and kk min raise is good as well. However... what about AK? Is it better to just shove it as oppose to min raise then call if it get reshove? The thing is if u open shove ak with 15bb... then ppl would fold 55 etc but if you min raise, they will come over the top and then you call and its a flip. Of course if they reshove aq, aj, kq etc you want that to happen. But the other thing is it opens up to players 3betting all in with hands like J10s and Q10s and though you are decent favorite, you aren't big favorite when going against aq, aj, a10, ax suited and Kq, KJ etc. Thoughts on this?


6. I read there was actually a program where it tells you if shoving all in is profitable in each position with a certain amount of BB. Can someone tell me what program is this or where i can test this out? I think this is called jenifear spreadsheet? However that is many years ago but is it still valid today? I believe theres also another program or sheet that calculates if its good to call all ins? Such as if someone UTG shoves for 12bb... what hands can you call where its profitable in MP or LP etc. Can someone tell me name of this program or spreadsheet? Also are these sheets/programs... do you just input everyones stack size and then put down who is shoving all in? Or if its you, then it says okay if you shove 15bb in EP with J9s... its profitable but not by much?


7. What is the minimum amount of BB where open shoving is good? I know 15bb and under open shoving is fine. But what about when you have pocket 22 and have say 20bb. I seen players open shove 20bb heads up with 22 and 33 but thats obviously correct since min raise then calling it off is worst right? However i also seen players open shove 20bb effective stack on the button with hands like j10s and j9s. These are profitable shoving with 10bb stack and under and obviously with 15bb stack on the button since its late position but what about 20bb? What about 25bb? The great things about these hands like j10s and j9s is even if you get called, you have at least decent equity if the caller has AK or 88 etc.


8. Is raise folding with anything less than 15bb horrible? I read someone mentioned don't raise fold with 22bb. However that guys a tournament player so if one plays say 180 mans.. that doesn't apply? So raise folding with 16bb would be fine but don't do it with 15bb or less? Or should it always be 22bb minimum? Also would it matter a lot if its mtt vs mtt turbo sng vs turbo mtt?

I posted Jennifear charts above. Also you can use ICMizer to find out more information on push/fold equity and etc.
 
No Brainer

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1. No, playing push/fold to this chart is not unexploitable.

There are so many factors to think about in tournaments that affect what we should be doing that noone can make a hand chart and say that it will work. It is good to have an understanding of ranges that could work but you must make adjustments to it at all times.
A few things to take into consideration could be
  • Your opponents (fishy, nitty etc)
  • Stacks Sizes
  • Payouts/Structure
  • Your image

The only way to know that pushing with these ranges is correct is if you know that your opponents are calling with the correct ranges as well. If for instance you think there is someone that is calling far too much then you should tighten up. If you think the people left to act will almost never call there are times you can shove any two cards. Your image also comes into this, if you have been playing every hand then people are more likely to call you or if you have been very nitty they will be more likely to fold. Remember though that they must have been paying attention to you and think about you rather than just the two cards in front of them to actually realise this.

The same goes for stack sizes. When thinking about shoving you need to look at all the stack sizes that are left to act. If there are big stacks compared to yours they may call very wide. If there are very small stacks they may also call very wide looking for a double up. The best spots to look for are generally medium stacks who will be made short if they call your shove and lose.

Payouts can affect your range if the bubble is coming up or even large pay jumps. This also comes back to stack sizes and ICM. Reading up on ICM and playing around with ICMizer etc should do more good than just reading a chart.

In the end I would say maybe print out the 10bb list and use it if you are just starting out but remember that you have to adjust it in every situation you find yourself in.
 
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