Punishing limpers in micro stakes

One of the things you learn in poker is "Punish the limpers!".
I think it's a good strategy, especially when you have a bigger stack than the others player on the hand.
But several times I tried to do it at micro stakes with 4, 5 x and was called for all the players in the table.
There is a way to use it in these tournaments?

Is Hard to say and more in the begining of the tourney wit deep stacks limpers probably will call your 4x or 5x they just want to see a flop and paying 5BB out of the 100BB stack does not seems lot to them so don't know how you could punish them realy I don't think is a good strategy .. is better if you just have your range of ROL (Raise Over Limpers) and apply it have a planned strategy

I think trying to punish limpers early on in micro stakes is a disaster waiting to happen for you. You aren't making pots much bigger when they don't have to be. At those stake people are going to call anyways. I guess if you are catching hands then that play might work, but overall what I've found is to just play after the flop early on and begin to punish limpers later on in the rounds when blinds are up and it costs to call light.

I think I agree somewhat with OP as it makes sense if you're playing TAG &/your range will always be better theoretically speaking, I usually get punished for limping or even 4 bet small bets, I think it works fuzz depends on the player, most overfold

Yeah most “rules” or fundamentals of poker playing gets thrown out the window in micro stakes. Most players won’t fold anything. They’ll simply call and call and then get lucky enough to piss you off. Lol.

tagece said:

One of the things you learn in poker is "Punish the limpers!".
I think it's a good strategy, especially when you have a bigger stack than the others player on the hand.
But several times I tried to do it at micro stakes with 4, 5 x and was called for all the players in the table.
There is a way to use it in these tournaments?

Click to expand...

Tips to fight limpers:
• Limpers are weak or recreational players
• Has a tendency to passivity
• Give preference to players who fold '' a lot '' to C-Bet
• Give preference to a range that has good post-flop playability
• Take care with stacks
• Pay attention to the size

If a table is full of calling stations, you can increase your open size and see, what that does. Also it is not always a disaster to get multiway action. You just need to accept, that you are going to win less pots, but they will be bigger pots. You also need to accept, that you generally cant bluff. But in return you have multible sources to get value from. In short you just need to get rid of the idea, that you must play some fancy kind of LAG poker and do a lot of bluffing. In loose games its all about making hands and getting paid. And also about knowing when to get away, when you are beat.

tagece said:

One of the things you learn in poker is "Punish the limpers!".
I think it's a good strategy, especially when you have a bigger stack than the others player on the hand.
But several times I tried to do it at micro stakes with 4, 5 x and was called for all the players in the table.
There is a way to use it in these tournaments?

Click to expand...

They're coming along because they think it's cheap. And, possibly they don't know any better.

Even with a 10x you will still get 1-3 callers.

But, I think you will have better results.

Remember to continue bet.

Good luck !

I always try to analyze and adapt to the playing styles of my opponents during a game. but I take my time and avoid not applying my reduced variance set. at the start of the game the players usually call big raises with marginal hands. better to be careful and manage your stack accordingly.

I tend to use two strategies in free and micro MTT when facing multiple limpers. When in the blinds, the only way is by going all in with a good hand (they'll learn soon enough). Moderate raise when in position (Button or CO).

When in the blind, if you raise 3X or even 5X, you will end up playing for a big pot out of position. On the button, you want a bigger pot because you have position.

I would like to share my experience in 9man SnG where you can find 4 limpers in a table. I used to have tilting problems with them.


IP: CO or BU
I bet 3BB + 1 per Limper playing speculative hands such as suited connectors, PP, etc. I had 2 advantages. 1) if miraculous the limpers fold and I got the dead money or 2) escape from the hand as sooner without expending any chips more. I just keep in the table with TP with a good kicker or a OESD, Flush draw or combos. Usually, we can play them for free if not hit a TP and in case of a frequently donk bet, they will give us excellent odds to play draws.
Continuation bet needs a stronger hand that cannot be diluted in the next streets.


OOP is a tricky game. I limp behind. with Ace-Queen, Ace-Jack Suited, Jacks Down Through Nines because protect my main villain reading me at the low blind game (that I'll face up in bubble) and play more aggressively with continuation betting close pot to protect even more my made hand. (very often without a showdown)

As I said I used to tilt with them: But I thought: As poker is a game of incomplete information and the limpers are telling us what are their games> Why be cross if I can exploit them and make my stack good enough for the bubble and when in ITM chasing the 1st pay-out.

Be safe,

Arnaldo

Very good answers, Thank you all. Looks like the only way to use this strategy is knowing your opponents a little bit at last. And having a hand decent enough to be able to play after the flop.

Punishing limpers and lessons learned

Game: NLHE Freeroll (played yesterday on ACR)

Situation: I had 35bb behind, on the button, holding KdKh. Was about 20 mins away from bubble bursting, with most players near bubble were very short-stacked.

Preflop: Three limpers. I raised to 8.5bb (per when raising over 3 limpers). Got 2 callers: a semitight-passive (UTG2) with 28bb behind after calling, and a loose-passive (CO) with 41bb behind after calling. I had 26.5bb behind going into the flop.

Flop: 6d 4s 9d. UTG2 checked. Loose-passive shoved, to my surprise.

Analysis: I was only losing to 99, 66 and 44, all of which would've likely check-raised the flop instead. Didn't think any of them were limp-calling 8.5x with 94. The loose player may have limped-called with 96 or 64, but would likely opt to check-raise, too. Ad4d may shove, but I held a diamond blocker. I was ahead of A9, A6 and A4.

Decision: Call. (UTG2 folded.) Shover showed Tc8c. No flush draw, was shoving with only a gutshot, needing a 7. I was 81% fav on the flop.

Turn: 6. I was 91% fav.

River: 7. Got rivered. On ACR. Again.

Lesson 1: The formula (3bb + 1bb per limper + big blind + small blind + antes) is, honestly, just bullshit. People will limp-call 15x, no hesitation, no ICM consideration.
Lesson 2: If raising more than 20% of own stack preflop, then just goddamn shove it and pray.
Lesson 3: Also, maybe don't throw phone to the wall after. Now need a sim card in the middle of a lockdown.

#stayinside

emzadii said:

Game: NLHE Freeroll (played yesterday on ACR)

Situation: I had 35bb behind, on the button, holding KdKh. Was about 20 mins away from bubble bursting, with most players near bubble were very short-stacked.

Preflop: Three limpers. I raised to 8.5bb (per when raising over 3 limpers). Got 2 callers: a semitight-passive (UTG2) with 28bb behind after calling, and a loose-passive (CO) with 41bb behind after calling. I had 26.5bb behind going into the flop.

Flop: 6d 4s 9d. UTG2 checked. Loose-passive shoved, to my surprise.

Analysis: I was only losing to 99, 66 and 44, all of which would've likely check-raised the flop instead. Didn't think any of them were limp-calling 8.5x with 94. The loose player may have limped-called with 96 or 64, but would likely opt to check-raise, too. Ad4d may shove, but I held a diamond blocker. I was ahead of A9, A6 and A4.

Decision: Call. (UTG2 folded.) Shover showed Tc8c. No flush draw, was shoving with only a gutshot, needing a 7. I was 81% fav on the flop.

Turn: 6. I was 91% fav.

River: 7. Got rivered. On ACR. Again.

Lesson 1: The formula (3bb + 1bb per limper + big blind + small blind + antes) is, honestly, just bullshit. People will limp-call 15x, no hesitation, no ICM consideration.
Lesson 2: If raising more than 20% of own stack preflop, then just goddamn shove it and pray.
Lesson 3: Also, maybe don't throw phone to the wall after. Now need a sim card in the middle of a lockdown.

#stayinside

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This is exactly the kind of action you want. In poker it rarely gets better than having 81% equity, when the chips go in. But 19% is still 19%, so you will lose some times. If that upsets you, it is something, you need to work on, because it is an integral part of poker. Its like getting upset, every time it rains living in a climate, where it happens 6 days a month on average. That would be incredibly silly right?

emzadii said:

Game: NLHE Freeroll (played yesterday on ACR)

Situation: I had 35bb behind, on the button, holding KdKh. Was about 20 mins away from bubble bursting, with most players near bubble were very short-stacked.

Preflop: Three limpers. I raised to 8.5bb (per when raising over 3 limpers). Got 2 callers: a semitight-passive (UTG2) with 28bb behind after calling, and a loose-passive (CO) with 41bb behind after calling. I had 26.5bb behind going into the flop.

Flop: 6d 4s 9d. UTG2 checked. Loose-passive shoved, to my surprise.

Analysis: I was only losing to 99, 66 and 44, all of which would've likely check-raised the flop instead. Didn't think any of them were limp-calling 8.5x with 94. The loose player may have limped-called with 96 or 64, but would likely opt to check-raise, too. Ad4d may shove, but I held a diamond blocker. I was ahead of A9, A6 and A4.
...Just because you think a set would check/raise this flop doesn't mean they can't be jamming with a set. This a coordinated, draw heavy board and shoving a set (practically pot sized bet) would be a standard would be a standard play here. The same goes for 2 pairs, jamming here is standard given the flop. I don't get how you think they might limp-called with 69 or 64 but not with 94? That doesn't make any sense.

A loose-passive donk shoving on the flop should have set off some warning bells.

Decision: Call. (UTG2 folded.) Shover showed Tc8c. No flush draw, was shoving with only a gutshot, needing a 7. I was 81% fav on the flop.

Turn: 6. I was 91% fav.

River: 7. Got rivered. On ACR. Again.
...Well, technically, you're only an 81% favorite to win the hand as you're both guaranteed to see the turn and river. You being a 91% favorite on the turn is irrelevant as it's already been factored in that villain is winning 19% of the time. It's also irrelevant that villain happened to win on the river. The results are the same if villain had won on the turn.

Basically, that stuff doesn't matter. Villain has 20% equity to win by river and they're hitting that 7 1/5th of the time. Crying that villain won on the river, again, is meaningless. Where else are they going to win, 1/5th of the time, if they don't on the turn?

You got your money in good and that's what's most important. It didn't work out for you this time, but it will 4/5 times in the long run.

Lesson 1: The formula (3bb + 1bb per limper + big blind + small blind + antes) is, honestly, just bullshit. People will limp-call 15x, no hesitation, no ICM consideration.
...Just because it didnt work out in your favor this time doesn't mean bullshit. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten my money in good and lost, but I can also tell you that I'm still profiting as a microstakes MTT player.

And to be honest, having loose players limp call 15x when you have KK is a dream scenario.

Lesson 2: If raising more than 20% of own stack preflop, then just goddamn shove it and pray.
Lesson 3: Also, maybe don't throw phone to the wall after. Now need a sim card in the middle of a lockdown.

#stayinside

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You had me in the first half, not going to lie.

tagece said:

One of the things you learn in poker is "Punish the limpers!".
I think it's a good strategy, especially when you have a bigger stack than the others player on the hand.
But several times I tried to do it at micro stakes with 4, 5 x and was called for all the players in the table.
There is a way to use it in these tournaments?

Click to expand...

This not only happens at micro stakes but even much higher buy ins including live. I was lucky enough to play in the wsop last year and a WPT main event. With stacks in these event of 300 and 400BB starting stacks seeing people limp call raises of 5 or 6X+ was not uncommon and seeing flop 3, 4 and 5 people at a time. When stacks are this deep calling with reasonable hand that could be used to stack others could be worth seeing.

As for the limper stagey of punishing them. Its not about getting folds when you punish the limper. The idea is also about getting called by inferior hands from people who dont play well post flop or will over play there hand. By punishing them you have a better opportunity to stack the players who you would not be able to stack had you not punished them in the 1st place. Let say you are 300BB deep with AK both hearts and there are 3 limpers. You raise them to 6x and they all call and the BB calls as well. you go to the flop with 31BB in the pot instead of about 6BB. The flop is K72 with 2 hearts. You bet 15 and 2 players call. 76BB in the pot. the turn is a J of hearts and you bet 40BB the one gut fall and the other folds. you now have a pot of 156BB with 239BB in your stack. the river is a blank and the other guy suddenly puts 100B in the pot, you can now shove and get called by a smaller flush and stack him. Had you just called would you have stacked him? Maybe. Had you call instead you bet 4BB on the flop with 2 callers. Pot is 18BB You be 12 on the turn and get the one caller again. 42BB in the pot. river he bets a 22 and you make it 70BB is he going to shove so you get his stack? Possible but even a bad player if he sees the 3bet or shove here can fold a hand if you had raise could trap him into a bad situation and call.

I've given up on trying to "punish" limpers in micros.. I generally just tighten my range and play more selectively and aggressively.. Half the time you can't raise them out, because a lot of them only think about their cards and try to suck flops.

Also, it's nice sometimes to play with limpers so I can limp along in early positions at mid blind levels with the small suited connectors/pairs and get better implied odds when I hit

I've also found that raising 2.5-3 bigs plus one for each limper can really add up when there are a lot of limpers and it might not be appropriate for your stack size.