Preflop raise sizes.

D

d4tart

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Total posts
12
Chips
0
There have been times during tournaments I see people raising to odd numbers. BB will be 100 they raise to 333 BB at 300 they raise to 999 BB at 1000 they raise to 3333 BB. At first I thought it was just odd but I have seen more than a few players do it. What is the reason? Any advantages or disadvantages?
 
horizon12

horizon12

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Total posts
4,126
Chips
0
You need the same size of the bet, otherwise experienced opponents can easily read.
There are two advantages that our opponent is not able to distinguish between our stealing and our raises. First, our steal will be more believable, because we will regularly show a very strong hand, with which we would play just as well on the flop, and secondly, we will be better to pay a strong card, as our opponents will be impossible to distinguish whether we have a steal ( bluff ) or a monster.
 
hobonc

hobonc

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 28, 2010
Total posts
854
Chips
0
There have been times during tournaments I see people raising to odd numbers. BB will be 100 they raise to 333 BB at 300 they raise to 999 BB at 1000 they raise to 3333 BB. At first I thought it was just odd but I have seen more than a few players do it. What is the reason? Any advantages or disadvantages?

If they have a reason its probably that they think it will confuse you. Don't pay attention to the actual bet size, you want to consider it in relation to the blinds, the size of the pot, and to the size of your stack. It also may be that the villain used the 1/3 pot button too.
 
T

trent32la

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Total posts
2,852
Awards
1
Chips
0
You should be raising the same amount every single time your opening a pot or else it can be easily read...another reason why you shouldn't open limp because when you finally raise 3x or 4x it basically gives away your hand strength...In cash game people will usually raise 3x or 3.5x....in tourneys usually just 2x....For me early on in tourneys ill raise 2.5x...after that a standard 2x
 
J

justanumbernow

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Total posts
41
Chips
0
if im raising its usually the standard 3x...the extra cents = people being jackoffs,or there is a 1/3 pot button ,makes scence
 
Last edited:
J

Jdawg0913

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Total posts
122
Chips
0
Honestly, they don't because it looks like more money. weaker players will fold to 999 but may call 900. A stronger player will not care.
 
T

Tiltt2424

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Total posts
78
Awards
1
Chips
1
Probably just using the 1/3 pot button.
 
D

d4tart

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Total posts
12
Chips
0
I understand always raising the same size preflop is the norm. This gives off as little info as possible. Using the 1/3 pot size doesn't make any sense due to it being pre flop. Example being SB 50 BB 100 these pre flop raisers raising to 333 instead of just 300. 1/3 of SB and BB would only be 50 which you obviously cant do. Another example SB 100 BB 200 instead of raising to 600 they raise to 666. The first time I saw a player do this I just thought it was weird. Then I saw a few other players doing it. Now there's always at least one person at the table doing it. Just curious as to why.
 
pwning666hellmuth

pwning666hellmuth

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
21
Chips
0
I think some people try to do this just to be different and they think its cool or something lol. But trent32la has a great point, you should always raise the same amount.i like to raise 3X BB in early stages of tournys when the blinds are low...then when the blindsget to 50/100 i switch to 2.5x and stick to that. That just me tho =)
 
zegaum

zegaum

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Total posts
81
Chips
0
Is probably only 1/3 the pot. You must always increase in the same proportion, to not end up delivering your game.
 
zegaum

zegaum

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Total posts
81
Chips
0
Is probably only 1/3 the pot. You must always increase in the same proportion, to not end up delivering your game.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
You need the same size of the bet, otherwise experienced opponents can easily read..
Opponents can only read you based on your bet sizing if different sizes reflect different ranges. If your bet size changes are random, there's nothing to read.

For instance, imagine you flip a coin each time you're first to enter a pot, and that you open 3x if it's heads, but only 2.5x for tails.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
You should be raising the same amount every single time your opening a pot or else it can be easily read...another reason why you shouldn't open limp because when you finally raise 3x or 4x it basically gives away your hand strength...In cash game people will usually raise 3x or 3.5x....in tourneys usually just 2x....For me early on in tourneys ill raise 2.5x...after that a standard 2x
You can vary your opening bet size in various ways as long as it doesn't reflect different hand strengths. You gave one example yourself, based on stage of tournament.

Another possibility, one that Phil Gordon brings up in one of his books, is position - opening for different sizes from EP, MP and LP.

There are also other ways that wouldn't give away anything; e.g. flipping a coin like I just mentioned, using different sizes during the first and second half of each level, etc.
 
R

Red_Devil

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Total posts
69
Chips
0
Anyone read Phil Gordon's Little Green Book? He advocates raising a different amount depending on his position at the table. Eg. he raises 2.5-3xbb in early position 3-3.5xbb in middle position 3.5-4xbb in late position and 3x from the small blind regardless of his holding. His reasoning here is that he wants to get most of his money in the pot when in position and drive the big blind out of the pot when on a steal from late position, by giving him a more difficult decision to make facing a larger raise.
This sounds fine when your deep enough to fold comfortably facing a 3bet, but facing a re-shove stack on a late position steal 'late game' with shallower stacks, you would be forced to fold to a 3 bet losing 2 bb's more than what you should have had you of min raised. A raise of 4x the big blind simply isn't needed in today's tournament games, as it would seem that most of the time a min raise of 2x the big blind will do the job most of the time, if stack depths are shallow enough e.g bb has 15-30 bb why raise 4x?. This is something that Gordon fails to mention, which could cost beginners money late in tournaments.

He also doesn't mind his smaller raises from early position, as most of the time he's begging for action with a premium hand!! Seems to be sound reasoning for his strategy, but I think it could easily be exploited in today's game.
 
S

sleepymike

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Total posts
106
Chips
0
I understand always raising the same size preflop is the norm. This gives off as little info as possible. Using the 1/3 pot size doesn't make any sense due to it being pre flop. Example being SB 50 BB 100 these pre flop raisers raising to 333 instead of just 300. 1/3 of SB and BB would only be 50 which you obviously cant do. Another example SB 100 BB 200 instead of raising to 600 they raise to 666. The first time I saw a player do this I just thought it was weird. Then I saw a few other players doing it. Now there's always at least one person at the table doing it. Just curious as to why.
My opinion is that to the raiser there is no basic difference in $300 and $333, but the 'weird' bet will make some people pause and wonder 'what's up with that'.
If this bet will accomplish this than it gives the bettor a small, occasional edge thus working as planned.
 
Top