Preflop Opening Sizing Discussion/Reasoning

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trent32la

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Figured this would be an interesting theory discussion to get on here about your preflop bet sizing in tournaments, or your opening size when folded to you.

Do you change your preflop sizings depending on your hand or position at the table?

Do you ever open minraise?

Any math behind your opening size?

Personal - I usually go 3x pre-ante, then 2.5x in the early ante stages, and then just a 2x raise past the early ante stages. Past the early stages I will open 2.5x from the SB. My sizing is the same regardless of what hand I am opening.
 
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It really depends on what hand do you have, usually I mix up my play.
 
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WiZZiM

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I honestly don't think it matters as much as say knowing what to do in situations postflop/when the build pots/when to get to showdown etc.

But i generally start out around the 2.5x mark and reduce it down to 2.25x and min-raise as i progress in the tournament or as my stack size shrinks.

I haven't looked into the math behind my reasoning, but in general i like to go to flops and raising smaller helps me do that, while keeping the pot small and cultivating a looser image.
 
teepack

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I don't have a set pattern for the PFR. Early in an MTT, I may try to raise it 4-5 BB just because the blinds are so small. Once the blinds get up to a certain level, I usually tone it down to either a 2xBB or 3xBB raise. I do try to make my C-Bet at least equal to the PFR, and then if I am continuing to bet the turn, I try to make it larger than the C-Bet. If someone is chasing a straight or flush on me, I want them to have to pay to hit it. I have found that increasing the bet on the turn seems to scare away a lot of folks.

Of course, that also depends on what I hit and who is on the table. In my pub game last week I had AKo in early position and raised 3xBB preflop to 1200 (BB was 400). The dealer called as did the BB. The flop came out A-Q-7. The BB checked, so I checked because I knew the guy who was last to act was very aggressive and would most likely bet big. He did just that, betting 3,000. The BB folded, and I check-raised to 6,000 and the other dude folded.

Normally I would bet the TPTK flop, but I wanted to see if I could get the other guy to bet by checking, and he took the bait.
 
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ibetmyho

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I would suggest to make all your raises the same size so that you do not give off any reads. Often I see players min raises monsters and raise larger with unpaired hands.

I would raise 2.5x early and when stacks get shallower and blinds and antes get higher I would start min raising or 2.1/2.2.

This way you risk less to steal blinds whilst still getting the same amount of information.
 
razva_raz94

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Im raising 2.7-3BB in the early stage and around 2.1-2.2BB when blinds are bigger and more if a player limped. I don't like opening minraise. In micro tournaments if you open minraise you will get 4-5 calls :D
 
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canabero

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i don't open raise regularly, especially in slow late reg tourney people use loose and hands like AJ, AQ could be easily beaten after flop. in later stages i used it more
there's a lot of factor that affects your decision, one thing that i learned is you can't make a OR against a big stack that is in big blind, you could fall in confusion in flop if he calls an you got nothing, in this situation in preflop is better to limite decision to shove or fold.
 
CAMurray

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When its folded around to me I like to raise 2-3 time the bb. I always mix it up with no correlation to my hand strength. I always keep in mind post flop is where the game is played and any individual hand means very little. Small pots & go the distance.

:icon_sant
 
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joe777

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2 to 2.5 when ante is involved sound good,i might even shove A10+66+ to steal blinds and antes.
 
azforlife

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Interesting question, something i've thought about quite a lot, I usually 3x or play for stacks playing mostly freerolls with 20 bb starting stacks but generally 5-7x live with premium hands & 4x with premium hands with antes (tourney).. guessing your op was about tournaments
 
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my Standard open is 2.2
from LP or with a limper I use 3.3
with a lot of calling stations and AA/KK I open to 4.4


I mix those sizings a lot, so 4.4 is not Always a Monster


in mid/late stage I usally don't raise 4.4
 
vox1er

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My sizing in early stage - 3bb, middle - 2.5bb , late - 2.14bb


You should never change the size of bets if table is not full of fish.

I use minraise only in late stage of tournament.
 
fickleberry

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It really depends on what hand do you have, usually I mix up my play.

Um.

This is exactly what you should not do; changing your betsizing based on your holding. That's how accidents happen.

I agree with the OP's reasoning (as a general guideline).

The only time I deviate from that sizing is when every hand gets 4-5 callers. I'll usually start to bet bigger preflop to weed out the most exotic hands so I get heads-up with villain.
 
vnnby

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Figured this would be an interesting theory discussion to get on here about your preflop bet sizing in tournaments, or your opening size when folded to you.

Do you change your preflop sizings depending on your hand or position at the table?

Do you ever open minraise?

Any math behind your opening size?

Personal - I usually go 3x pre-ante, then 2.5x in the early ante stages, and then just a 2x raise past the early ante stages. Past the early stages I will open 2.5x from the SB. My sizing is the same regardless of what hand I am opening.
It depends on that hand you have. But usually check/raise/fold for the first position(3bb, 2bb), for the second - call/raise/check/fold(2bb), and the least position - raise/fold(2bb):lollypop:The result is more aggressive:driver:
 
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trent32la

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Ha! What an old thread from my glory days.

Will go ahead and update with how I approach my preflop sizings present day.

Early stages - 3bb open if stacks >80bb.
Early mid stages - 2.5bb open, usually if stacks are >50bb, otherwise 2.24x.
Mid-late stages: 2bb open from all positions outside the SB if stacks <50bb eff and if BB defends <35% of hands vs a raise, 2.24x open if BB defends >35% of hands vs a raise.

2.24x open if effective stacks >60bb and BB defends <35% of hands vs a raise. 2.5x open if effective stacks >60bb and BB defends >35% of hands vs a raise.


From the SB I will go 2.5x if effective stacks <40bb and BB defends <45%, 3x if BB defends >45%. At 50bb+ effective stacks I will open 3x in SB unless BB is a huge NIT.

At final tables, there are situations where 3xing the SB with effective stacks <25bb is optimal with leverage.
 
Manjerica1

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Hey I do a very similar strategy that I have learned in a team I played.
P.S ( This is a strategy for MTT tournaments with 180 + players. )
Like the Cardschat freerolls :D

Early Stages always 3bb

Early to mid and mid game 2.5bbs.

Late game I do 2.0-2.2 BBs not more than that.
Have you ever notice that if you do a higher size than 2.2 in the final table it represents a strong hand? No? so pay attention to your next games...it is not common to good player do it...

Of course your stack matters and the effective stack of the table also matters... Praticle Example:
- Everyone in table is down to 20bbs. It's quite bad to open raise 3bbs. You will only get called by strong hands... you will create a huge pot...(huge pots are tough to play because can cost you your tournament.)

Other thing that change bet sizes preflop it blindwar... SB vs BB
Always 3-4bbs Raise. in early stages... if you are on SB
And if you are on BB and SB limps, if you think you want to raise or punish the size should be around 3.5-4bbs

Do you guys agree with me? (that's what I have learned from good brazilian Regulars)



Ha! What an old thread from my glory days.

Will go ahead and update with how I approach my preflop sizings present day.

Early stages - 3bb open if stacks >80bb.
Early mid stages - 2.5bb open, usually if stacks are >50bb, otherwise 2.24x.
Mid-late stages: 2bb open from all positions outside the SB if stacks <50bb eff and if BB defends <35% of hands vs a raise, 2.24x open if BB defends >35% of hands vs a raise.

2.24x open if effective stacks >60bb and BB defends <35% of hands vs a raise. 2.5x open if effective stacks >60bb and BB defends >35% of hands vs a raise.


From the SB I will go 2.5x if effective stacks <40bb and BB defends <45%, 3x if BB defends >45%. At 50bb+ effective stacks I will open 3x in SB unless BB is a huge NIT.

At final tables, there are situations where 3xing the SB with effective stacks <25bb is optimal with leverage.
 
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the only thing I will add is that occasionally I will change between 2 and 3X BB based on villains. If people are calling everything in SB and BB then I go higher and then take down more chips with a c-bet. On the other hand, I never go above min raise for people that are folding nearly everything, no need to put extra chips at risk.
 
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dlam

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I will not miniraise early. Too many callers. I raise enough to have everyone fold. Usually that will be 3x or higher depending how loose or tight table is
I will bet 2x or 2.5x very rarely if I think I will get a 3bet and I holding AA or KK
 
okeedokalee

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Early in a tournament the blinds are low and you 3x it with your big pairs or AK AQ, those who like suited connectors will be encouraged to call.
Three x 20, 40, or even 50 is not a big call for the small ballers, and before you know it your big hand is in trouble.
The main thing to is make your raise in position and make it unreadable. As an instance maybe raise your QQ KK TT and JT-9/8 and say A5 suited all for the same amount. Meanwhile limp AA, KK if late in the hand and also limp BWs and small pairs.
This way your opponents can never be sure what you are holding.
When you do get called while holding big pairs always consider suited board cards and low cards on the flop as threatening, especially if an opponent not known for aggression is betting.
If on the other hand an aggressive opponent has slowed down, that is he hasn't cbet etc, be cautious.
 
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matiusaa

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There are no exact correct numbers. But I find it ok to open 3.5x in EP on the first stages, and 3x in the rest of positions. Before antes, but with smaller stacks, I change this to 3x in EP and 2,5x in MP. When antes, I open to 2,25 in EP and then min raise from rest of positions.

It is also fine to open around 3x in early stages,around 2,5x in middle stages and around 2x when antes.
 
Igor Popadyk

Igor Popadyk

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Figured this would be an interesting theory discussion to get on here about your preflop bet sizing in tournaments, or your opening size when folded to you.

Do you change your preflop sizings depending on your hand or position at the table?

Do you ever open minraise?

Any math behind your opening size?

Personal - I usually go 3x pre-ante, then 2.5x in the early ante stages, and then just a 2x raise past the early ante stages. Past the early stages I will open 2.5x from the SB. My sizing is the same regardless of what hand I am opening.
My opinion is that the size of the bet opening still depends on the effective stack, some regulars do not disdain limping, not to mention amateur players
 
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