pre flop help

i seem to understand nl holdem very well after the flop and forward. however i seem to have trouble preflop. like which hands i should play in what pos and weather or not a should raise with it or not. i know basic hands n which ones to play and raise with in what positions. however this isnt what i need help on. its more of like when to three bet hen to call or what position should i call a reraise. i know theres lots n lots of hands n situations to play all the hands just looking for a few pointers

Hope this helps

I'll give this a try

You play loser in diffrent forms of the game. In a cash game for instance you might run with A5s from middle against a raise if you think another player is lose. In a MTT you make no assumtion like this in the early rounds. You would not even call with A5s from the middle and you would spit on it from the button.

Rule one in any form of the game, unless you know someone is trying to dominate you. Never call a re-raise without AA or KK. Chance is the guy who re-raised you pre flop has one of them.

AK is a raise hand but not a re-raise hand.

And if your playing from the button fold everything but AK AA KK. Yes chuck your AQs away. Muck the QQ - JJ or 10-10. You play the button in a MTT with anything else you will leak like a tap.

Without knowing your playing format this is hard but I can only advise you on MTT play. A form of the game have no trouble reaching the bubble in. I expect to reach the bubble in every game I play, but then I don't make it all the time do I .

In the latter part of the game when the blinds catch up. You are going to have to form your own TIGHT aggresive style. Add a few cards to your range. If you don't you will starve yourself out of a lot of MTT's.

Early however its pretty simple stuff to tell you. A hell of a lot harder for you to FORCE yourself to do.

Button: AA KK AK (Fold to a raise!) Just muck anything else. Sure you will hit that 3rd Q and be pissed every now and then. But long term Watch the A's and K's smoke your Button QQ and smile cos you still have your chips.

In the middle You can call with your pokets but no more than 2 and fold to any raises. Anyone raises the blind from those first two seats your in trouble.

You can call with A-10 and higher. Your Suited conectors are callers.

From late positions. You can add the small suited conectors as well. But again only if noone has raised the blind. When I say raised the blind I mean a real raise 3-4 times the blind. If they raise 40 into 80 they a fish and could have less than you.

Now this is the most important tip I can give anyone in MTT's Do not even call with those K-9's A-9's Q'9s or lower. Even if they are suited!

You will miss the occasional flush yes. But you will unltimatly save yourself being knocked out of MTT's. Think about how many times you have seen your A turn up. You get all happy and bet away....

Then the other guys has a real Ace it's kicker friend has a face on it.

Hope this helps you.

P.S. Pre flop you have AA KK AK and are first into the game. 4 times the blind or better I bet 20.

Reason, you limp into a pot with this thinking your going to win nomatter what, you let 3-4-5 players into it. Someone will flop 2 pair or a draw. You only want 1 caller. 2 at the most or your AA is no longer as big a monster as you might think.

-----bryce said:

i seem to understand nl holdem very well after the flop and forward. however i seem to have trouble preflop. like which hands i should play in what pos and weather or not a should raise with it or not. i know basic hands n which ones to play and raise with in what positions. however this isnt what i need help on. its more of like when to three bet hen to call or what position should i call a reraise. i know theres lots n lots of hands n situations to play all the hands just looking for a few pointers

Click to expand...

Hmm... some good questions actually. Only thing is, it'd take a reallyyyyy long answer to even touch on it imo. Alot of stuff you will get the feel for over time (ie. when to 3bet steal/shove... (size of stacks, pos., player type, etc.)). THere's just sooooooo many different scenarios to get into (that can be covered by your questions) that it'd take an answer around the size of a book (for me anyways). Maybe simpler answer would/could be... > question is too vague to give a short'ish' answer to.
sorry i couldn't be of any more help

Seach the net for a good starting hand chart for the form of game you play also. Just keep in mind there are exceptions to the the rules. I have won hands with far less then told to by any chart but them I had 4,500 chips and the guy I knew was a fish running on rubbish 1000 chips.

I have not looked on this site but if you search starting hand chart you will find one.

^^^^^^^^lololololololololol


folding QQ-1010 from button?

Yeah

Mate thats pretty standard practice for a good MTT player.

SNG and cash game I'd run them. MTT you have a long time to build your bank... chill out QQ is not a strong hand. Sorry.

Rubiton111 said:

I'll give this a try

You play loser in diffrent forms of the game. In a cash game for instance you might run with A5s from middle against a raise if you think another player is lose. In a MTT you make no assumtion like this in the early rounds. You would not even call with A5s from the middle and you would spit on it from the button.

Rule one in any form of the game, unless you know someone is trying to dominate you. Never call a re-raise without AA or KK. Chance is the guy who re-raised you pre flop has one of them.

AK is a raise hand but not a re-raise hand.

And if your playing from the button fold everything but AK AA KK. Yes chuck your AQs away. Muck the QQ - JJ or 10-10. You play the button in a MTT with anything else you will leak like a tap.

Without knowing your playing format this is hard but I can only advise you on MTT play. A form of the game have no trouble reaching the bubble in. I expect to reach the bubble in every game I play, but then I don't make it all the time do I .

In the latter part of the game when the blinds catch up. You are going to have to form your own TIGHT aggresive style. Add a few cards to your range. If you don't you will starve yourself out of a lot of MTT's.

Early however its pretty simple stuff to tell you. A hell of a lot harder for you to FORCE yourself to do.

Button: AA KK AK (Fold to a raise!) Just muck anything else. Sure you will hit that 3rd Q and be pissed every now and then. But long term Watch the A's and K's smoke your Button QQ and smile cos you still have your chips.

In the middle You can call with your pokets but no more than 2 and fold to any raises. Anyone raises the blind from those first two seats your in trouble.

You can call with A-10 and higher. Your Suited conectors are callers.

From late positions. You can add the small suited conectors as well. But again only if noone has raised the blind. When I say raised the blind I mean a real raise 3-4 times the blind. If they raise 40 into 80 they a fish and could have less than you.

Now this is the most important tip I can give anyone in MTT's Do not even call with those K-9's A-9's Q'9s or lower. Even if they are suited!

You will miss the occasional flush yes. But you will unltimatly save yourself being knocked out of MTT's. Think about how many times you have seen your A turn up. You get all happy and bet away....

Then the other guys has a real Ace it's kicker friend has a face on it.

Hope this helps you.

Click to expand...

Different scenarios require very different actions. (ie. MTT play (AK) in one instance.. AK might be a 4bet SHIP it hand... in another spot it might simply be a 'call'.. in another it's a 3bet to isolate or take it down... in another it's just an open-shipit allin... in another it's a 3bet SHIP IT). In other words... 'who knows'.. 'it depends'.
Maybe not too productive but I will make a couple of quick comments on this other post.. just because I disagree with it ALOT (in spots that I've read so far.. & that was just the first couple of lines.. sorry Rubiton.. no offense).

Rubiton111 said:

I'll give this a try

You play loser in diffrent forms of the game. In a cash game for instance you might run with A5s from middle against a raise if you think another player is lose. In a MTT you make no assumtion like this in the early rounds. You would not even call with A5s from the middle and you would spit on it from the button.

Rule one in any form of the game, unless you know someone is trying to dominate you. Never call a re-raise without AA or KK. Chance is the guy who re-raised you pre flop has one of them.
This is NOT true. Depending upon the 'situation'.... & for one thing > the 'buyin level'.. another > size of stacks, effectives stacks.. level of blinds.. position... player type... our image, etc. etc. a 'Re-Raise' might be 75s... 'it depends'!!!! To suggest it'd only be AA KK is wayyyy off the mark. (in a tight game (MTT) in early levels.. the 4th of 5th bet & you probably say.. AA/KK only)
AK is a raise hand but not a re-raise hand.
This ^ is not true either!! Not by a longshot. There are a TON of situations where you'd be wanting to (should be) shoving over & allin with AK.
And if your playing from the button fold everything but AK AA KK. Yes chuck your AQs away. Muck the QQ - JJ or 10-10. You play the button in a MTT with anything else you will leak like a tap.
I'm thinking that the use of the word ''button" might've been used incorrectly here? (perhaps they're meaning 'UTG' ??.. but even then.. you're not mucking QQ/JJ/TT from utg either (at least I'm not).. there'd be many circumstances where you'd be raising 44 from UTG in MTT play.... nevermind QQ-TT (and from BTN.. forget about it.. you might be raising ATC from the BTN (any two cards)... but of course.. 'it depends', lol.
Without knowing your playing format this is hard but I can only advise you on MTT play. A form of the game have no trouble reaching the bubble in. I expect to reach the bubble in every game I play, but then I don't make it all the time do I .
You must get dealt better cards than I do .. if you can sit & fold QQ-TT on BTN...??
In the latter part of the game when the blinds catch up. You are going to have to form your own TIGHT aggresive style. Add a few cards to your range. If you don't you will starve yourself out of a lot of MTT's.
I would suggest the exact 'Opposite' >> you'll be needing to 'loosen' up in many circumstances (although in some cases you'll need to tighten up depending upon a few factors.. 1) the types of players on your table, particularly the ones to your left 2) stack sizes to your left... ie) if it's late & you're sitting with ~20bb's.. you'll actually want to consider tightening up your opening range.. especially if there are re-steal (simliarly sized stacks as your's) to your left (you don't want to be raise/folding pre.. on a stack of ~20bb's.. or 16-20bb'ish'.. even 16-22bb's).
Early however its pretty simple stuff to tell you. A hell of a lot harder for you to FORCE yourself to do.
(I think what he ^ is saying here is... it's easy to tell you to play TIGHT in early levels... but doing it might not be so easy.)
Button: AA KK AK (Fold to a raise!) Just muck anything else. Sure you will hit that 3rd Q and be pissed every now and then. But long term Watch the A's and K's smoke your Button QQ and smile cos you still have your chips.
I would suggest that if you're folding QQ on BTN to a single raise... you have some MAJOR leaks in your game.
In the middle You can call with your pokets but no more than 2 and fold to any raises. Anyone raises the blind from those first two seats your in trouble.
why are we 'in trouble' if we're deepstacked & are flatting an EP raise while holding a low-med. pkt.pr.? I would think that 'if' we do hit our set, our chances of getting paid off are MUCH greater because those EP raisers might actually have a BIG PP.. & might not be able to fold their overpair on a raggedity lookin' flop.
You can call with A-10 and higher. Your Suited conectors are callers.
Sorry.. but I have to 'disagree' here again. AT is not a good hand to be 'calling' with (earlier levels). Hands that are raising will likely have us dominated and a hand like AT/KJ has huge reverse implied odds (think about it.. what kind of flop do we want to see with our AT hand... and feel comfortable about it when we're getting action when an Ace flops?.. we're likely Way Behind! Also.. if we do hit our ACE.. and villain isnt' holding a bigger kicker with their Ace.. what types of hands are going to be paying us off here? (not many.. so we stand to win a smaller pot when we actually do win with the AT)
From late positions. You can add the small suited conectors as well. But again only if noone has raised the blind. When I say raised the blind I mean a real raise 3-4 times the blind. If they raise 40 into 80 they a fish and could have less than you.
errr.. I 'disagree' again. SC's are great to call in LP with because similiarly to set-mining with low-med. pp's.. when you hit hard with SC's it's those players with big overprs. &/or AK AQ TPTK type hands that Will be paying you off!! (not sure what a 40 into 80 raise means?).
Now this is the most important tip I can give anyone in MTT's Do not even call with those K-9's A-9's Q'9s or lower. Even if they are suited!
if stacks are deep, flatting with an AXs hand could be great... as long as you're able to get away from your TPMK type flops.. & to know that this wasn't the real reason why you were choosing to call with these hands preflop.
You will miss the occasional flush yes. But you will unltimatly save yourself being knocked out of MTT's. Think about how many times you have seen your A turn up. You get all happy and bet away....

Then the other guys has a real Ace it's kicker friend has a face on it.

Hope this helps you.

Click to expand...

Didn't want to just write in here, tearing up someone else's post.... but I felt I needed to. Not sure if it helps at all.... hope it dose. ??

Rubiton, Please don't take my post here as a 'flame'.... or tryin' to be a dick or something. It's not the purpose of it whatsoever. I did feel strongly enough about it however, that I felt it needed commenting on.
Good thing about poker... there's more than one way to play a hand... more than one strategy to play an MTT (or to win it), etc. etc.

I hope my post helps more than it hinders or causes any sort of dissention or bad feelings.
gl on the tables!

Rubiton111 said:

Mate thats pretty standard practice for a good MTT player.

SNG and cash game I'd run them. MTT you have a long time to build your bank... chill out QQ is not a strong hand. Sorry.

Click to expand...

disagree completely

poker orifice thank you for correcting this

LMMFAO!!!! and any other letters that I could throw in....(I purposely put AS many in as I could). OMFG!!! and all that jazz. Fold QQ from the button. I believe he even might have even said fold AA to a re-raise on the button. Oh my!!! Who's book have you been reading? Holy crap!

lol ya dont think id fold 1010 or better on the button but thanks all for the advise

PNJs_dad said:

LMMFAO!!!! and any other letters that I could throw in....(I purposely put AS many in as I could). OMFG!!! and all that jazz. Fold QQ from the button. I believe he even might have even said fold AA to a re-raise on the button. Oh my!!! Who's book have you been reading? Holy crap!

Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts to Rubiton111's post!

And thank you to PO for saving me from writing a longass post explaining how far off the mark the majority of Rubiton111's post was. Again, like PO, I am not flaming, but if youplay like that, most observant players will exploit the crap out of you. This strat may work on a smaller network with a small player base in MTT (say 150-300), but if you play in a larger tourney you will barely reach the bubble, and probably never win any unless you get slapped in the face with the deck.

Though in fairness, I can't speak to your results, as you neglected to put your site names in your profile and therefore I can't confirm wether or not you are making any profit, nor what stakes you play. But it is my feeling that you are breakeven in MTT?

I think he might have meant under the gun not on the button. On the button means dealer position not first to bet in a hand. So while I might agree that you wouldnt necesarily want to play queens or lower pockets from under the gun I see absoulutely no reasoning for not playing them from the button unless youve seen enough raising to make you think someone has you dominated.