Pot odds and tournaments

Lheticus

Lheticus

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There's something I'm ambiguous about with the concept of pot odds. In cash games, playing them well puts the math in your favor. But in tournaments, as I've stated many times before, each tournament is its own short run so you never get to the long run, so to me the value of using pot odds is diminished. However, that isn't to say there aren't times when going by them is useful in tournaments.

What I'm ambiguous about is where to draw the line. Say I have a flush draw, I'm confident enough that if I hit I win, and if I miss or hit something like just a pair instead I lose. The bet to me gives me good enough pot odds to call, let's say 5 to 1.

Under what circumstances do you think I should fold? I won't accept "none" as an answer, this exercise assumes that such circumstances do exist.
 
bushy_lufc

bushy_lufc

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2 clear ones would be:

A: If calling that amount and losing affects your stack to a point where you must play differently, for example your stack is 30k and blinds at 500/1000 and the bet is 15k if you call and miss you have now gone from a very playing stack to an awkward stack where most of the time youre playing shove or fold.

B: If youre on the bubble or FT bubble and once again it is going to hurt your chances of making the money or FT to call and not hit. Also some FT spots would apply.
 
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sillymunchie

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yeah pot odds work slightly different in tournaments, although are calculated the same

i think the main point with pot odds is, from a micro point of view
you are given alot of good pot odds where your stack is not at risk and your able to grow your stack steadily.
however once you get to 30bb, and your stealing blinds with hands that can flop well, if you hit a draw then pot odds become a huge factor.
 
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Danc1u

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2 clear ones would be:

A: If calling that amount and losing affects your stack to a point where you must play differently, for example your stack is 30k and blinds at 500/1000 and the bet is 15k if you call and miss you have now gone from a very playing stack to an awkward stack where most of the time youre playing shove or fold.

B: If youre on the bubble or FT bubble and once again it is going to hurt your chances of making the money or FT to call and not hit. Also some FT spots would apply.
Some of the points are good,but....u should never play for ITM,u should play for 1st place,u have the cards play with no fear,especialy close to money or FT all ppl play extremly tight and if u have a good stack u can do so bluffs,that`s the way i play :) it`s just my opinion:p GL all
 
Farseer

Farseer

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ICM effect might make you to fold. Clearest position is when bubble is near, but there's also position like in FT 8 left you against another big stack and with lots of small stacks. You don't want to lose big pot against another stack in such position, but in another version it might be best plan to attack your opponent and force him to fold good amount of his value hands (but then you have to know that opponent understands that he shouldn't risk his chips either).

"Playing for the win" is worst plan for MTT player to make profit. As most of your winnings come from other cashes that outright wins.
 
Lheticus

Lheticus

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Some of the points are good,but....u should never play for ITM,u should play for 1st place,u have the cards play with no fear,especialy close to money or FT all ppl play extremly tight and if u have a good stack u can do so bluffs,that`s the way i play :) it`s just my opinion:p GL all

Frankly, I'm not in the camp that says one should play for first place or nothing at all. It sounds romantic, but the fact is in MTTs there's a lot of risks that would be acceptable in other formats but not there.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to settle for a min cash but there are other acceptable places to come ITM. I mean, as Ricky Bobby's father said when asked about "if you're not first, you're last", that doesn't make any sense at all. You can be second, third, fourth... hell, you can even be fifth. Playing that way depends on your circumstantial ability to take advantage of such a situation (ie having a big or at least fairly big stack) and, even more crucially, how many other people at the table have had the same idea. If two or three other people are jockeying to make big stacks bigger at your table through this method, it's probably not a great idea to join in yourself while just holding whatever.
 
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