Pot odds says play

tothbopo

tothbopo

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I have been thinking about this situation.

You are in bb and you are a small stack with 3.5 bb. It is near the bubble.

You are holding 89s and the flop gives you a straight draw with two overcards and a flush draw.

Wich means many outs. Severel players calls, lets say 6 and pot odds is very clear you should call that 1 bb raise but that would kick you out as bubble boy for sure if you dont hit the hand.

And you dont know where the royal family is belonging to your flush.
 
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seghill

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with that many players you are sure to get called. that makes pot odds better.

BUT if the others are either big stakes who don't care or small stacks also looking for the out your call would bring you grief most times.

Watching live videos/games they miss in this situation so often that it realistically is not worthwhile.

OK I'm a coward but cashing is important and there is always a better hand around the corner (yeah right) ;)
 
suby_rafael

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It is near the bubble.

How near is it ?? Do you think if you fold you can get into the money ?? Or do you need to win another pot within the next round or so ??

With 3 bb left i would fold even such a strong draw and try and get into the money if we think we can make it. Doesn't matter to me if we are against 6 players or simply one. I would not take that chance. Cashing is now the priority with 3 bb left.
If you think it might take another couple of rounds atleast for bubble to burst then you might consider taking the risk. :icon_scra
 
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jimmy62

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Most of the time if I can triple or quad my chips, I call if i have a chance of not cashing or blinding out .Folding with those pot odds really only delays the inevitable if you dont get a decent hand before blinding out with worse odds and maybe a worse hand.Luk2You
 
Mr Sandbag

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Unless the min-cash is something outrageous (which it never is), not only should you get your chips in there but you should have jammed awhile ago. You have no fold equity in any spot with 3bb, so you're def putting the chips in when you've flopped decent equity.

As a side note, you should generally never have 3bb in a tournament. The only exception is if you lose a big pot but win a small side pot of 3bb. Otherwise, you want to start shoving when you've still got fold equity and a double up is meaningful (doubling up a 3bb stack still results in an absurdly short stack).
 
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hffjd2000

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My say here would be, it depends on the amount of buy-in if I continue the play or not.

With regards to outs, you have to deduct because of counterfeit (reason, so many players at hand) or opponents might be holding some of our outs.
 
eidikos

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its a great opportunity to go from 3.5 bb to 15bb and have some chances to win the tournament
dont think the bubble so much,its not so important long term
easy call there
 
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RodrigoCL

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Don't ever worry about being the bubble boy or getting kicked out short of the money. If you are only playing tournaments to min-cash, you are wasting time. It's no worth to dedicate 2 or 3 hours of play to just receive your buyin back with some extra cents. If you played an A game during 3 hours and got a cooler or bad beat that left you with 3bb so close to the bubble burst then it's just variance and deal with it cause it will happen a lot again and again. With 3bb near the bubble you will probably only have one orbit left to play. In that case just shove any two. In the situation you describe with so many outs you are better putting all your stack in than folding. Worst that can happen is you bust out (and with such a stack you are almost out anyway) while on the opposite you can really get a boost to your stack and even get back into the game!

GL.
 
slicheri93

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When it's bubbel boy time i always take my time and just fold the hand in that position , if i had a straight and a flush draw thats a other story
 
tothbopo

tothbopo

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I know this situation is not well defined and answars got a lot of variance.

But thanks for all the answers.

This situation is anyway a daily situation I think. Go for the money or go for going deep.

In the long run it must the right thing to call and hope that variance looks our way.
 
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jpalumbos

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No one has talked about the actual odds of hitting to this hand. Even if it's a gutshot straight draw, you have 12 outs to get a str or flush. That's about 25%for each of the remaining 2 cards. That's a 50/50 shot at having over 20bb near the bubble, vs a100% chance of 3bb. I'd make that call every time.
 
tothbopo

tothbopo

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No one has talked about the actual odds of hitting to this hand. Even if it's a gutshot straight draw, you have 12 outs to get a str or flush. That's about 25%for each of the remaining 2 cards. That's a 50/50 shot at having over 20bb near the bubble, vs a100% chance of 3bb. I'd make that call every time.

If you hit the flush there are still a chance that another got higher flush or higher straight if you hit that so chances of rivering nuts is minimal. But it will be a good hand if you hit.
 
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SnowedIn

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If you hit the flush there are still a chance that another got higher flush or higher straight if you hit that so chances of rivering nuts is minimal. But it will be a good hand if you hit.

Not if you have two overcards.
 
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stevieboy4

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I agree

No one has talked about the actual odds of hitting to this hand. Even if it's a gutshot straight draw, you have 12 outs to get a str or flush. That's about 25%for each of the remaining 2 cards. That's a 50/50 shot at having over 20bb near the bubble, vs a100% chance of 3bb. I'd make that call every time.
I agree for the very reasons you gave,just saying.:)
 
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braveboat

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Unless the min-cash is something outrageous (which it never is), not only should you get your chips in there but you should have jammed awhile ago. You have no fold equity in any spot with 3bb, so you're def putting the chips in when you've flopped decent equity.

As a side note, you should generally never have 3bb in a tournament. The only exception is if you lose a big pot but win a small side pot of 3bb. Otherwise, you want to start shoving when you've still got fold equity and a double up is meaningful (doubling up a 3bb stack still results in an absurdly short stack).

I agree with MrSandbag; getting it in is 100% correct here unless you know you're going to make it to the money. By letting your stack get to 3BB you've already indicated that you're playing for the mincash, so I'd stick to that strategy.

Prior to letting your stack get so low, however, you should be shoving your stack in order to pick up chips to win the tourney. The money is at the top of the prize pool, and if you're pmt playing for that, you're already running -EV.
 
12551255

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If I think I can cash before my next blind, I'm folding. If not, call for sure.
 
rock0001

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i think you have to shove all in and hope for the flush or straight to came out on the turn or river. i dont think that an 8 or 9 will give you the best hand that often because any of the other 5 other players can have a9,k9 or q9, however you still have at least 15 outs to win the hand.
 
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stevieboy4

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i think you have to shove all in and hope for the flush or straight to came out on the turn or river. i dont think that an 8 or 9 will give you the best hand that often because any of the other 5 other players can have a9,k9 or q9, however you still have at least 15 outs to win the hand.
Agreed
 
yeezus

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Go for it connect four. You got a chance to quadruple up and giveself some breathing room. Make the decision based on trying to win the tourney instead of a min cash (unless your bankroll depends on the cash lol)
 
limpnfold88

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I have been thinking about this situation.

You are in bb and you are a small stack with 3.5 bb. It is near the bubble.

You are holding 89s and the flop gives you a straight draw with two overcards and a flush draw.

Wich means many outs. Severel players calls, lets say 6 and pot odds is very clear you should call that 1 bb raise but that would kick you out as bubble boy for sure if you dont hit the hand.

And you dont know where the royal family is belonging to your flush.

This doesn't really make much sense because with only 3.5 bbs, you should never be seeing a flop without being all in pre. Unless maybe if the pot was limped. Even then you probably should have jammed the bb with 89s
 
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Ambur

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If i am somehow in the pot with 3,5bb left and see flush draw+straight draw on flop - there is no question i will bounce it 100% time. It is like Xmas for me!
 
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