Originally Posted by Tangerine 53
Assuming you're referring to the OP which talked about EP early in a tourney then I'm probably going to fold (again discounting all the other 'it depends' factors such as the villain stats, table dynamics etc). For low to mid PP there are just too many flops that will be poor for us particularly if we're OOP and against a 3 bet. Early in a tourney we can live to fight another battle - this one has the potential for us just to bleed chips with a potentially marginal hand.
But you're right - it does depend!
You flat OOP when you are deep enough stackwise to make set-mining profitable. If you aren't that deep then either open fold (nothing forces you to play 22 UTG) or be willing to raise and fold. on 20bb you might might** want to just open muck 22-55 or something like that if you are afraid to raise/fold. On the other hand you should get more credit for having raised from early position and are less likely to get 3bet IMO.
IF you are sitting on 45bb at the other extreme, I'd have no problem raise/folding all day long.
Also, you need to be thinking about the stack sizes you are raising into. If there are a bunch of 15-20bb stacks, you might choose to fold pre if they are likely to 3bet shipping and you arent calling off.
You can also choose to 4 bet if you are getting 3bet too much if you want to turn your hand into a bluff.
Originally Posted by Tangerine 53
Originally Posted by teebee
i raise 2 1/2 Xbb no matter what position i an in. unless the pot has already been raised then if its cheap enough i flat call the raise
On what basis? What's your rationale for taking this approach? I'm especially interested why you do this regardless of your position.
Do you find this approach +EV?
I think teebee is half right half wrong.
On the one hand, keeping your raises all the same size (as BB multiples) disguises your hand strength. It's obscene how many players have betsizing tells
... particularly where they open bigger with premiums. And by bigger I mean bigger than the table standard or their own standard. Bad players often raise 3.5x or more late in tourneys with mid pairs bc they are scared to get flatted.
I've stolen more chips / made more easy laydowns pre from betsizing on raises than any other thing in the game. Example- if someone is 2.5xing all day and then 3xs all of a sudden, it's 99% of the time a monster hand.
So, if you raise, for example, 3x with whatever you are holding people can't tell what you have. could be AA or 72.
Now, on the other hand, while I believe betsizing should stay standard for all your opens, it should change with the stage of the tournament. Raising less than 3x 1st level of a 3k stack tournament is begging to get called. However, as blinds rise and stacks effectively dwindle, you can raise less, especially once antes kick in - as calling ANY raise will dent most stacks.
with antes in play 2.2 - 2.4x is the norm these days, if not min-raising only. The idea here is also that the fewer chips you can get away with risking the better.... so standardize your raise sizing to the smallest amount the table will let you get away with. Not only do you save on the raise, you save on the cbet too, assuming you bet the same % of the pot.
There are only three exceptions I can think of to vary your open sizing:
1) if you can really randomize your opens and make them all different (though staying around some multiple) - though it's easy to accidentally tip your hand this way.
2) Sometimes I vary it with the table. If the table is not responding the way I want- i might raise my open size (though keeping it standard) if they are stations. If the table norm is smaller I'll go smaller to stay in line with the table. (Though if the table norm is 3.5x I'm not following the crowd- they are just wasting chips.)
3) When raising into a very short stack, I will raise less if necessary, so that their shove is just enough to be a raise and not a call. That way if someone flats behind I can shove and isolate. If I raise 3x and the shorty has 4bb and shoves.. and there is a flat behind, I can't reopen the betting and shove.