PLO8 what to do with this hand?

dj11

dj11

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AAAA

What did I do, and why do you suppose I did it?
 
Shumkoolie

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The way you phrased the question, I think the only play you could have really done here is to raise. Two factors:

You have all blockers for nut lows and nut flushes, so the best any of your opponents could have here here 23KK and most players, when playing PLO8, especially short-stacked (good ones at least) are going to 3-bet/risk their entire stack most times with AAxx or Axxx (with high and low hand potential). The likelihood of marginal hands behind you is very high in this spot. You have pretty good position as well, so your timing would be good here.

The only player I'd be concerned about is the button here because (s)he has a very high VPIP and possibly the limper, though they may be prone to folding big raises behind. But again, going back to what I said before, they probably have marginal holdings and would prefer a cheap flop.

You could fold here, but I think with 34bb's to start, even though there is potential to have others go nuts here, your play is profitable in the long-run and you can pick up 2.5 bb's here.

If you did anything different, I would be surprised.
 
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dj11

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Tho I don't remember precisely, let's add in that 9 spots pay, and we are past the re-buy/add-on period.

I do remember what I did here.
 
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Shumkoolie

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Tho I don't remember precisely, let's add in that 9 spots pay, and we are past the re-buy/add-on period.

I do remember what I did here.

I'm sticking with my original answer. I think you're risking very little here to win chips and blocking all suits and nut lows is the primary reason why.
 
DougPkrMonsta

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I hope you folded, but I think you might have raised... probably ended up taking a 5-handed flop despite crippling the deck of potential playable hands - lol.

People don't like folding in $0.50 tournaments and good luck moving anyone off two-pair, let alone a flush or a 4th nut low post-flop. :D
 
dj11

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So, 2 opposing notions.

I'm not ready to expose what I did with this hand. I'd love more reply's.
 
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Lol not often you face this situation.

I'm folding.
 
Kenzie 96

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Fold would be my action, guess you could raise to try to pick up the blinds, but don't see much value in this hand.
 
RidersFan

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The play is to fold your hand has no potential, you could pot it and still go 3-ways to the flop especially since it's a low buy-in. Your hand is only good for the blockers you hold but you would have to get the right board and play it aggressively and then hope your opponents understand Omaha, which is unlikely at a low buy-in tournament. This is a very high risk/low reward hand. Stealing the blinds and limpers call isn't a thing that happens in PLO8.
 
Shumkoolie

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The play is to fold your hand has no potential, you could pot it and still go 3-ways to the flop especially since it's a low buy-in. Your hand is only good for the blockers you hold but you would have to get the right board and play it aggressively and then hope your opponents understand Omaha, which is unlikely at a low buy-in tournament. This is a very high risk/low reward hand. Stealing the blinds and limpers call isn't a thing that happens in PLO8.

I think the blockers here are highly underestimated. Remember, the best possible hand you could have is KK23 double suited. The likelihood of having that strong a hand is very small. I think the opposite in that it's a low risk play to make because even if you meet resistance, you can dump the hand. You can use that to your advantage in a later situation in that you're showing that you're willing to splash and you can do the exact same thing with a really strong hand. Also, your stack here is still healthy enough that you can raise/fold.

I know myself if I have a hand like 24KQ, even one suit, with a limp and a raise behind me, even if I am one of the short stacks, I'm not willing to re-pot all-in when I'm only EVER getting called by better and the chances of a better hand are very high.

Holding all nut cards for suits and lows, I'm no longer really playing my cards, but rather my opponents here. I think you need to go beyond first level thinking here and understand the dynamic of having such a hand. Yes, obviously, it's a terrible hand to go to showdown with, but you won't ever play this hand with that in mind. It's about applying pressure in the right spots, and this, in my opinion is one such spot.

But then again, I could be wrong and am totally leveling myself here.
 
RidersFan

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I think the blockers here are highly underestimated. Remember, the best possible hand you could have is KK23 double suited. The likelihood of having that strong a hand is very small. I think the opposite in that it's a low risk play to make because even if you meet resistance, you can dump the hand. You can use that to your advantage in a later situation in that you're showing that you're willing to splash and you can do the exact same thing with a really strong hand. Also, your stack here is still healthy enough that you can raise/fold.

I know myself if I have a hand like 24KQ, even one suit, with a limp and a raise behind me, even if I am one of the short stacks, I'm not willing to re-pot all-in when I'm only EVER getting called by better and the chances of a better hand are very high.

Holding all nut cards for suits and lows, I'm no longer really playing my cards, but rather my opponents here. I think you need to go beyond first level thinking here and understand the dynamic of having such a hand. Yes, obviously, it's a terrible hand to go to showdown with, but you won't ever play this hand with that in mind. It's about applying pressure in the right spots, and this, in my opinion is one such spot.

But then again, I could be wrong and am totally leveling myself here.

Problem is your never going to take then hand down pre flop. So, now you've put yourself into the unnecessary situation of having to bluff 3 streets or just give up when you are called. Your putting money in with no chance to improve your hand. As for blocking the nut low and nut highs, this is only ok not great. If the board runs out flush with no chance of a low and is not paired, then you could use the ace to bluff. That is in the best case scenario and even then at low stakes your going to get called by the 2nd nuts and even 3rd, these players just aren't thinking on a high level. This makes it high risk.
 
dj11

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Note; I posted this hand for folks who mainly play HoldEm. When I explain what and why, it will be an explanation to those folks mainly. Experienced PLO8 folks know about hands like these, the HE noob to PLO8 will obviously see this as the mother load hand.
 
Shumkoolie

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Note; I posted this hand for folks who mainly play HoldEm. When I explain what and why, it will be an explanation to those folks mainly. Experienced PLO8 folks know about hands like these, the HE noob to PLO8 will obviously see this as the mother load hand.

LOL!!! I would never think of this as a mother load hand in PLO8, that's for sure. I'm interested in your response though.
 
dj11

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One of the concepts that draws me to Omaha, is that it is so easy for me to overthink HoldEm. I have to have something to distract me in Holdem, else I tend to think myself to death. So usually I pay more attention to some solitaire game I have running on the side. PLO8 solves lots of that need for distraction.

Another concept is that in any Omaha hand, we are dealt the equivalent of 6 Holdem hands each! And we are up against each player who also has 6 hands. And with a split-able pot, we won't want for action. The 6 hand concept is one that Holdem players seem to miss. And even when they start to realize it, they tend to ignore the fact that each other player also has 6 hands. At an active table, that could easily mean we are up against 30 hands! In this hand I am up against at least 6, (and AA seldom does well against 6 hands in HE), with the possibility of being up against more than the 6 UTG represents. I want at least 3 of my hands to have at some playability.

In this case I have 1, and only 1 hand and am likely to get called if I raise. With the SB, the very real possibility of getting re-raised as he is short, and time is running out. So while the notion of raising to isolate briefly flashes across my brain, I nix that thought in a heartbeat. Yes I do have all those blockers for almost everyone's initial hand evaluation, but that isn't enough to sway my thinking.

I assess my tourney position and tell myself I am in OK shape.

I am up against the table CL who has probably noticed me going to showdown with iffy hands that got lucky. I do that a lot most days, and make no secret of my penchant to chase in PLO8. They think I am a lucky SOB, i see it as being a bit more gamy than them. It is a double edged sword. I am still working out how to wield that sword.

So then I think briefly about just coming along. Briefly. At this stage in the game, these remaining players have a clue. While I put great stock in a motto of 'Stick around, see what happens' which is also a double edged sword attack, I am sitting in good shape, and poised to get to a FT. I have no desperate need to play this hand.

It's true that at the lower levels of PLO8 it is nearly impossible to bet anyone out of a hand, so the raise is less likely to work.

As for the isolation attempt; the situation IMHO, is isolating me OUT of this hand.

I folded. Based quickly on the fact that really, I only have one hand. The only way this hand can improve is if the board trips. That is rare enough, and even then the case card is worrisome.

The one thing that pisses me off in a situation like this is that in the greater scheme of things, I just got 6 AA hands and got nothing for them.......;)

And BTW, I would also fold 3 aces unless the 4th card was a perfect fit (Suited K or 2) and even then I would only limp. I would not call a PFR, but would want to see a flop.
 
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orchidra

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In my humble opinion, you did the right thing in folding.

With AAAA (or any quads) you can kiss goodbye to four of a kind, flushes, straights and the low hand. Does not leave much left.
 
dj11

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IMHO, PLO8 is a chasing game.

I often think about how many different hands my 6 starting hands can morph into, so one of those thoughts might be, 'I got straights down to 6 low, or @ flushes with no low'. The more I have covered the better.

One of the cardinal (rule) sayings about PLO8 is to avoid the middle cards. Even a 6789 double suited is supposed to be avoided. That might be the toughest situation I have to make me do something other than chase.
 
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