playing to win vs. placing

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terryg642

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I've been playing a lot of poker lately I used to play to make in the money but,lately I've been playing with the mindset of winning the whole thing.It seems to me with all the horrific bad beats on online poker you have to try and win the whole thing in order to make up for all the bad luck. Just wanted know what everyone thought.
 
scorpion1367

scorpion1367

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I play to make a profit and build my bankroll ,usually aim for the money then aim for the win kind of a 2 step process......scorp
 
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waterboy73

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I am like scorpion1367, in that I used to play to make ITM, then play to win. I also play to grow my roll, and that's by profiting. But I now play for the win, outright, and am more willing to take some chances. If it means accumulating that many more chips, which in the long run, will give me a better chance at taking it down.
 
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Jdawg0913

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Always play to win. One win is worth more than 100 min cashes not only for your bankroll but for your mindset. Wins fuel your confidence and can make you play better. They also give you experience that you cannot get by min cashing.
 
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adepoker11

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always out to win, the bad beats appear, online poker is a hard game have to concentrate
 
bullishwwd

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Play toward making good poker decisions and the 'results' should follow in the long run.
 
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Scrover

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You almost always play so then you can win unless you have half a blind on the money bubble or anything that extreme. Take EV+ (expected value), so in the long run you will get there. Of course you need some luck in a tournament, but don't be like what I used to do; play because I don't have discipline. You will not cash in a lot with the mindset you have, but the big wins will come more often and that's what you want.
 
micalupagoo

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I used to go for ITM
CC taught me better
I'd now rather bubble many games
as long as Im making the proper moves at the proper times
1 win is better than many many min cashes
 
shanest

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Def play to win. I'd take a flip against another similar sized stack close to the bubble.
Like others have said one win is worth more than 100 min cashes
 
SeaRun

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Right now for me, playing to cash while increasing my skills at the game and slowly increasing my BR. I believe smart playing will get you to the cash enough times that the wins will come
 
Arjonius

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Right now for me, playing to cash while increasing my skills at the game and slowly increasing my BR. I believe smart playing will get you to the cash enough times that the wins will come
I used to think like this for the first while I played. For me, it was sub-optimal. As I trained myself to think and play differently - which took a while - my $ win rate improved even though my ITM decreased.

Sure, you'll still win some tournaments and place high in others by playing to cash. But those big cashes will be less frequent, and you won't make up for this via more small cashes. .
 
SeaRun

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I used to think like this for the first while I played. >>>>SNIP.

May I ask what games you were playing?

I should make something clear from my above post:

Right now, my playing time is $1 STT Turbo S'nGs, and $2.50 X 180 Turbo S'nGs (which I prefer, but time is normally an issue, 2 hrs + Vs. 40-45 mins).

With the STTs, yes, I am going for the win, each one, but the 180 player games, I'm more realistic in finishing position.

Payoffs have been better on the MTTs for both straight cash and ROI.
 
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sillymunchie

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I play to win, and get some good results from it

PKR i have 150% ROI, ive never considered the bubble, I play each hand on there own merit, either i feel i am ahead, feel i can get a fold, or feel that i NEED some luck (6-10BB)
the only time ive played differently was in the CC freerolls when i had $0 to my name, as it was a nice prize to start, however now i have $78 its not the same and i probably end up playing for the win again

A few other exceptions to the rule is if you are in a satalite and get into a tournament that is bigger then what your bankroll would allow, and a min cash is a substantial increase to your BR (however if your in a satalite like this your breaking the BR rules anyway, and if your trying to get into a MTT like this you should still play to win)
 
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sslater

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so play to position it pays if it is part of some greater competition scoring and playing the overall standings. then it is important every single point. If you are playing but purely as a separate tournament win is the most important. but on the other hand, it is also true that the higher you are the more interesting winnings and most pricepool is down to the final table.
 
steveiam

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My play has changed in the last few month's as i have put more into going for the win than just to cash.And overall my ROI has improved.
 
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You should have let us know first whether you are an advanced player or a beginner, or middle stage. Now, you need to set your mind that you will win the 1st prize when you enter a tournament. Many novice players get lucky in early mid stage, growing their chip stacks to enormous levels, but not aim for the first place, because they think they cant do it. Thats a mistake. They often make really terrible moves. If you won a few lucky hands in the beginning and say the average stack is 5k and you got 15k, that is no place to try out your luck anymore. You need to tighten your game. Most of the novice players also, when there are 10 players left they stop playing at all , just to get in the money, thats a mistake. Firstly, you dont know exactly how much time it will take for these 10 people to get knocked out and you will get eaten by the blinds. In that situation, you could cash, but just the minimum prize, and when these 10 players are gone, you are in the money, but your chip stack has decreased to that amount that it is almost impossible to get into the better prizes. So, you need to start playing aggressive when there are fewer people before the bubble, because that is the time when people start to tighten their game. You start accumulating chips - blinds, antes. On this stage of the game it is just important to have a hand that has medium to high value post flop, in that meaning Ax Kx and such, because most of the time you wont even see the flop. You need to aim for the first place, not the last ones. Its better to get knocked out on 51 place ( Considering there are 50 places paid ) 2 times, but when you actually get into the money you would want to have a real chance for the first prize, with atleast average chip stack. If you are just playing to get into the money you will not also make little-to-no profit, but you will get used to play with this method because you think just because your BR isnt decreasing - youre doing well. You aim for the better prize, not just to get your buy-in back.
 
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Cleobulle

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I go for the win. It's easy for me, as I play mainly freerolls (no bankroll yet). But sometimes, I should play differently: In a tournament with 72 places paid by a ticket, I got sent out 74th calling the chipleader with QQ pre-flop... I still cry a little when I think about it.
 
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invisile

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I try to do my best in first and when i am on deep run i start thinking about win. But my priority is play good and become better.
 
micalupagoo

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I go for the win. It's easy for me, as I play mainly freerolls (no bankroll yet). But sometimes, I should play differently: In a tournament with 72 places paid by a ticket, I got sent out 74th calling the chipleader with QQ pre-flop... I still cry a little when I think about it.

happens to us all, sometimes you have to make a tough fold,
but really, getting it in good is what good poker is about
don't let it bother you
playing optimal will payoff in the long run
gl with your bankroll
 
stevenright

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it depends on how big is your bankroll and how good you are really

if you dont have a large bankroll i think it would be best to try to always make to the money and then get aggressive and try to win.

but if you have a great bankroll and have no risk of losing it all you should aim for the victory, if you are a good player, because if not you probably always busting before the money, and the times you get in the money you bust before final table...
 
valkopt

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Bankroll has a huge role on it. When I'm aiming only for a spot ITM that can help my BR, I tend to loose right after the bubble (when I gt there :D), because I'm too short for doing anything else.

So, if you're not in a strict BR management, always aim for the winning.
 
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wherbie718

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I think this is a really interesting topic, in that it calls into question what your thoughts of success are when you sit down to play a tournament.

In the words of Herman Edwards "You play to win the game". However, is a 2nd place finish a loss? What about a final table?

I choose to believe that I will win (finish 1st in) every tournament that I sit down to play. However, the goal is to play well and make the best decisions to put me in the best position to win. That will give me the best chance of winning or getting a good finish.

The problem in my opinion to playing to finish in the money is that you sell yourself short for a small profit. What happens when you make the money? There's still more tournament to be played and more decisions to be made. As a few have mentioned, most novices will start making poor decisions at this point because they don't truly believe they can win.

Additionally, if you do min-cash, you're turning such a small profit over the amount of time that you played, it can take forever for you to build your bankroll.

I believe that making the money is a decent win, however final tabling is a solid win, a top 3 finish is a big win, while winning the tournament is the ultimate prize.
 
Arjonius

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In the words of Herman Edwards "You play to win the game". However, is a 2nd place finish a loss? What about a final table?
This doesn't consider the bigger picture. In poker, this is your entire "career", not an individual tournament. And the goal is to maximize your total winnings within your capabilities. There is no coming first, second, etc. because you're only relevant yardstick is vs. yourself.

Playing to place high and win is better because it will result in winning more in the long run. Some people disagree with this, but I can't recall any great players who do.
 
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wherbie718

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Playing to place high and win is better because it will result in winning more in the long run. Some people disagree with this, but I can't recall any great players who do.

I think this was the main point of what I was getting to, but you should be playing to win individual tournaments. Over the long run, finishing in the money is great and will make you profitable. However, there's nothing wrong with shooting for the win.
 
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