Playing the "usual" game?

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Niantic

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I've heard a bit about the book "Don't listen to Phil Helmuth".
It basicly says that you won't gain much profit by 3-betting, which I think is correct in most tournements.
Many people have joined the world of poker lately, and many of them haven't really got a clue on when to fold and when to play.
These players leads to a lot of bad beats, which in many cases will knock one out.

I'm sure you've all tried it, you're sitting with the strongest hand possible, the nuts on the flop and some guy/girl pushes all-in. You can't fold, that would be stupid because you have the nuts! - You call!
He gets a runner, runner straight, flush or anything else.

Did he call you with his 75 because you were "only" 3-betting or would he have done it if you had 5- or 6-betted instead?

What's your thoughts about this?

Regards!
 
10058765

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May I assume you mean betting 3 BB instead of 3-betting ?
I think it's all player dependent (so read dependent).
Some players call with junk, whatever you bet, others fold very light to 2,5-3 BB bets.
What you have to find out about the players, is what amount of betting they will fold to and what amount they will call on later streets if you want them to call because you're most certain you're ahead.
 
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Niantic

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Yes, I meant 3 BB :)
But also 3 times the amount of a bet before you. Ex: BB is 50, a player before you bets 3 BB and you raise to 450. Well, it isn't really that important.

But the interesting thing is:
Would it be more profitable against the calling-stations to bet 5-6 BB if you are the first to enter the pot?

I think that 3 BB can do it in most cases, but in the early stages I think that 5 BB would do the trick.
Most players will think you bluff because it can seem like an overbet, without saying that it is.
 
WVHillbilly

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"Don't listen to Phil Helmuth" is a cash game book and I guarantee you it doesn't say that 3betting isn't profitable.

Also I don't think you understand 3betting, well because, you can't just decide to 5 or 6 bet.

A 3bet has nothing to do with the size of the bet. A 3bet preflop is when someone open raises and someone else reraises. The reraise preflop is called a 3bet no matter if it's 3x the size of the open or it's a shove.
 
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Niantic

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Why is it called a 3bet then?
I thought I had it figured out :)

I'm not that much into the different terms in poker, I just play it, and practicing my bankroll management.
The terms I know is the very basics, and obviously not the 3bet term.

Care to explain it to me? :)

Thanks in advance!
 
WVHillbilly

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It's called a 3bet because it's the third bet.

Preflop: Posting the blinds counts as bet 1, the raise is the 2nd, and the reraise is the 3rd. It can go on and on with a 4bet, 5bet, 6bet, etc.

Postflop it's still the 3rd bet but since there is no blind posting postflop, it's the 2nd raise. So if the action on the flop is bet, raise, reraise, the reraise is the 3bet.
 
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WVH has it right in terms of what a 3-bet actually is. The first bet is considered to be the Big Blind. Hence, the first person that raises pre-flop is actually "2-betting" although thats a made-up term and you'll never see it in use. The re-raiser is then 3-betting.

For example if you're playing in a .05-.10 game and the big blind posts his 10c, a player then bets 30c, he is the first raiser (but actually the second bettor), another player re-raises to 90c, his re-raise is a 3-bet and you just go on up from there depending upon how many raises there are.
 
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Okay, that's why it's called that! :)
What about the SB then? Doesn't that count for a bet?
I'd guess it's a no, from what both of you said, but I'm just asking because everyone calls it a 3bet when they raise as the first to enter the pot. :)

Appriciate your help guys! :)
 
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Big_Rudy

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everyone calls it a 3bet when they raise as the first to enter the pot.

I can only assume they are very inexperienced players then. Send them to my table please:D . The first person to enter a pot voluntarily (not the blinds) is either open-raising, that is they are the first raiser, or limping if they are just calling the big blind to open the pot (don't do that:D ).

The first person to enter a pot can never be 3-betting. 3-betting is when you raise someone else's raise. Posting the big blind counts as a bet, not as the first raise.
 
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Big_Rudy

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What about the SB then? Doesn't that count for a bet?

Sorry, overlooked this part of your question at first. Think of the small blind as just a "pot-sweetener". It is only half (usually) of the required amount to actually play the hand. That is, all it entitles the poster of the small blind to do is either a) put more money into to the pot in order to play or, b) fold.
 
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Great, so when you're the first to enter the pot voluntarily (not the blinds) it's called a 2bet, right? :)
And don't worry, I rarely call the BB, I usually raise :D
 
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Big_Rudy

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I guess, technically, you could call it that. But, as I said above, that's really just a made-up term to help you understand where the term 3-bet comes from. I've never heard anyone actually call the first bet a "2-bet". It's usually just called a generic "raise". Sometimes, usually in discussing hands after-the-fact, it may be called an "open-raise", but usually just stick with "raise". So the standard format in a hand would be "post blinds", "raise", "3-bet".
 
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Okay, thank you very much for your explanation, Rudy!
I really appriciate it! :)
 
WVHillbilly

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I guess, technically, you could call it that. But, as I said above, that's really just a made-up term to help you understand where the term 3-bet comes from. I've never heard anyone actually call the first bet a "2-bet". It's usually just called a generic "raise". Sometimes, usually in discussing hands after-the-fact, it may be called an "open-raise", but usually just stick with "raise". So the standard format in a hand would be "post blinds", "raise", "3-bet".

Pretty sure Phil Helmuth referred to an open as a 2 bet earlier this year but people who know what they're talking about never say 2bet. :)
 
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Niantic

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And now I know what I'm talking about as well ^^
Thank you for your help, both of you :)
 
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Big_Rudy

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Pretty sure Phil Helmuth referred to an open as a 2 bet earlier this year but people who know what they're talking about never say 2bet. :)

Scary. I'm thinking like Phil Helmuth now. Here I thought I made up that term to explain 3-betting. Now, if I could just learn some better whining skills.....:eek: .
 
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Big_Rudy

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LOL, yeah, that too. Winning AND whining. You'd think the two would be mutually exclusive, but I guess not. Gotta love PH:D .
 
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