Playing Pocket Pairs 77-TT

MikeCarasone

MikeCarasone

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Just trying to gain some insight when playing mid pocket pairs and facing a big 3bet or shove deeper in a tournament, as well as on the bubble. It seems like this scenario comes up a lot. I will have 20 - 30 bigs and open 2.5x with 88 or so, then I Get 3 bet a very big amount, or shoved on. What is the best response to this situation?

It seems as though I’m likely flipping at best, or behind, so I am often wondering if it’s worth it to continue with my hand. Obviously set mining isn’t going to be successful very often and I’m gonna face a big continuation bet and further my dilemma with medium pairs. LoL.
 
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RunningLikePluto

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Stack sizes/effective stacks/“M” if it’s even still called that (orbits remaining in stack at current B.B.) mean everything in the spots you’re describing, imo.

I think of my fold frequency (or inversely, my propensity to 4! Jam) as a strange looking curve where my fold frequency is the y axis and my stack vs villain and/or average is the X.

As a short stack I’m never folding 66-AA and depending on how short that can widen to 22+, so I’m calling it off/jamming in those spots. Then in that lurch between being ~avg stack->top quarter of the field in chips is where I’m going to be limping in LP to fit/fold, folding in EP (UTG,+1,+2,+3) anything <JJ and even jacks depending on table and reads. So the fold frequency is high in those spots for me, peaking around avg stack vs opp who covers, playing for tournament life. Then as I become top half/qtr of field in chips, I *try* to change gears, become a bit LAGgy by tourney standards, and just punish ppl while we’re on bubble (either itm or ft) so fold frequency is gradually decreasing the less “risky” the call/jam is to our future prospects in the tournament.

i.e. Tourney Bubble (ITM) I’m ~avg stack in MP, and open 99 for 2.5-3BB, folds to CO or BTN, who covers and 3! anything more than a minraise, I muck it.

In same example if I’m ab average stack and someone w/ <50% of my stack 3! From the same position, I’m jamming if HU. Or if they iso first, and jam I’m snapping.

If I’m deeper in chips like say top 25% of field in these spots, I’m going to be opening in earlier positions and 3! a lot more on bubble. In fact I think it’s a sin not to open 66 UTG deepstacked riding the ITM bubble. Think of it as a long range blinds steal attempt, where if you get moved on you’re usually flipping at worst.


Hopefully this helps.
 
MikeCarasone

MikeCarasone

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Stack sizes/effective stacks/“M” if it’s even still called that (orbits remaining in stack at current B.B.) mean everything in the spots you’re describing, imo.

I think of my fold frequency (or inversely, my propensity to 4! Jam) as a strange looking curve where my fold frequency is the y axis and my stack vs villain and/or average is the X.

As a short stack I’m never folding 66-AA and depending on how short that can widen to 22+, so I’m calling it off/jamming in those spots. Then in that lurch between being ~avg stack->top quarter of the field in chips is where I’m going to be limping in LP to fit/fold, folding in EP (UTG,+1,+2,+3) anything <JJ and even jacks depending on table and reads. So the fold frequency is high in those spots for me, peaking around avg stack vs opp who covers, playing for tournament life. Then as I become top half/qtr of field in chips, I *try* to change gears, become a bit LAGgy by tourney standards, and just punish ppl while we’re on bubble (either itm or ft) so fold frequency is gradually decreasing the less “risky” the call/jam is to our future prospects in the tournament.

i.e. Tourney Bubble (ITM) I’m ~avg stack in MP, and open 99 for 2.5-3BB, folds to CO or BTN, who covers and 3! anything more than a minraise, I muck it.

In same example if I’m ab average stack and someone w/ <50% of my stack 3! From the same position, I’m jamming if HU. Or if they iso first, and jam I’m snapping.

If I’m deeper in chips like say top 25% of field in these spots, I’m going to be opening in earlier positions and 3! a lot more on bubble. In fact I think it’s a sin not to open 66 UTG deepstacked riding the ITM bubble. Think of it as a long range blinds steal attempt, where if you get moved on you’re usually flipping at worst.


Hopefully this helps.



Yes, very helpful. Thanks for input.
 
MikeCarasone

MikeCarasone

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I have noticed some of the bigger “name” or successful players always getting it in with 88 or better frequently. Obviously they know more than me. I usually try to see a flop but maybe I should be jamming or folding. Just trying to gauge what the consensus is.
 
Omahahahaha

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Fold they probably have aces.
 
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wacosteel

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I would fold 77 and 88 to reraise, and call with 99 or 1010.
 
playinggameswithu

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I'd never raise with a hand that is 90% dependent on a cheap flop.

Also when you ask yourself and realize your hand is flipping at best or crushed at worst it is time to fold.
 
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Just trying to gain some insight when playing mid pocket pairs and facing a big 3bet or shove deeper in a tournament, as well as on the bubble. It seems like this scenario comes up a lot. I will have 20 - 30 bigs and open 2.5x with 88 or so, then I Get 3 bet a very big amount, or shoved on. What is the best response to this situation?

It seems as though I’m likely flipping at best, or behind, so I am often wondering if it’s worth it to continue with my hand. Obviously set mining isn’t going to be successful very often and I’m gonna face a big continuation bet and further my dilemma with medium pairs. LoL.


The only reason to raise pocket pair pre-flop is as a bluff/too balance your range. I don't feel like balancing your range is AS important in tournaments due to players come and go much more often, so mainly used as a bluff pre. You gotta fold in these spots when you get 3bet heavy or shoved on.
 
MikeCarasone

MikeCarasone

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The only reason to raise pocket pair pre-flop is as a bluff/too balance your range. I don't feel like balancing your range is AS important in tournaments due to players come and go much more often, so mainly used as a bluff pre. You gotta fold in these spots when you get 3bet heavy or shoved on.



That’s been my choice (folding to big 3 bets) most of the time. Obviously certain players that are playing wild and way too loose I may play back at or look up. Thanks for the feed back.
 
steeler1970

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If i get 3 bet and i have 6s-10s i will fold on what on a better hand where i can hit the board because getting a 2 outer and have to get 4 cards to make a straight is so hard so yes i would fold them hands before the flop
 
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piko_bianko

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In this situation I follow the advice of my professional friends:
The game is called NO LIMIT texas holdem, so you better not play hands you won't support with your full stack.

In the 88, 20-30bb situation you're asking,
I agree with the 2.5x initial bet,


When you get a re-raise, try to read the situation and either FOLD, or re-raise all-in.
Just calling the re-raise, will put you in a difficult spot, since you showed weakness and most flops will seem hostile.

If the raise is big, your opponent might want to protect his hand, so he probably ain't having AA or KK, and might not call an all-in in any other situation.
A small re-raise usually means value, so even if you want to gamble for a set, I think it's better that you save your chips for a stronger hand.
 
BnaD

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A lot is dependent villain(s), blind levels, stack size and position, but as a general rule I'm not stacking off pre with anything less than QQ and AK. Play tight. Super tight. Binked a tourney last night throwing away jacks and AQ several times, not to mention small pairs. I got to the final table and once I was on a big stack I called several all ins I believe with 88, AQ, and 55. Lost all 3, but it had hardly any effect on my stack size and I was able to recover.
 
Shrops

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Hi

When I have medium pocket pairs and get three bet or shoved into later in tournaments then I will usually fold. I always like to be the first person to go all-in with medium pocket pairs. Good luck !
 
rohankamble9

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I will most probably fold in this situation. If I have like 30-40BB I would sometime even call the 3 bet to see the flop.but with 20 BB I would rather fold and wait for monster cards
 
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karl coakley

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I'd never raise with a hand that is 90% dependent on a cheap flop.

Also when you ask yourself and realize your hand is flipping at best or crushed at worst it is time to fold.



I think that says it all. If you want to win in poker you need to see flops, not get into coin flips or 20/80 situations.

If the bet isn't too big you can call, if they shove you fold.
 
gabpoker

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To win at poker over the long haul you need to get your money in good and win your "flips" when you are +EV.

If you are folding these hands to a 3 bet preflop every time then all you opponent has to do is 3 bet you every time and print money, if you call and fold when you don't hit the flop again all you opponent has to do is 3 bet you every time and then bet the flop.
 
cranberry

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With pocket pairs 77-TT I try to enter the game limp. With a short stack - all-in from any position. A raise can be made from a late position, but if there is a 3-bet, then fold.
 
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pokersextreme

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A min raise would be the best option for me because when one person limps it creates a chain of limpers and any good player on the board will re-raise all in or to an amount you won't be able to call so the best way to see a flop is to raise not limp! Also when you're up again 3 other players that limped with you, you won't be able to know the range of hands they have so if you do hit your set you'll still be behind and most likely will inevitably committing to a limp pot!
 
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BetterNot

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i usually raise those hands but wouldnt call a re-raise
 
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