Playing the nuts out of position

F

feecg

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Total posts
196
Chips
0
Hi guys, I wanna know what do you think is the best way of playing the nuts out of position.
Example: I have KQo and I make a standart raise (about 2.5BB) and I have one caller, the button, and then the flop comes KQ6, what you do here from now on?
 
Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
how would you say you have the nuts with that example? One could've easily limped in with a pair & made a set with that flop. or a open ended straight or a flush. And the buttons range is pretty wide.
I would've likely gone with a value bet. under half the pot.
But many factors also come into play. Like your position and player style. And if you are raising from an early position, your range is also very limited. so not that hard to figure out.

I'm no expert but those are my thoughts
 
terryk

terryk

TheCanuckwithalltheluck
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Total posts
7,053
Awards
10
Chips
1
Alucard is right,,top two pair is not the `nuts` :icon_scra
 
HennieP

HennieP

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 30, 2017
Total posts
186
Chips
0
Although it's not the nuts you still have a really strong hand. Now you need to find out what your opponents have. A bet of around 50% pot size should give you plenty of information. If your opponent has something like AK or TJ with a straight draw he's likely to just call. If he has a set he's likely to raise unless he's known to slow play monster hands.

Pre-flop action also tells you a lot of what you're up against. In this situation it is very unlikely that you're facing KK or QQ because most players would have 3 betted you pre-flop. That leaves hands like AK/AQ/TJ/66 to consider. If your opponents call and the turn is an Ace you could be in trouble.

A good poker player will learn to not only think about his own cards but about what his opponents might have based on how they reacted pre-flop and how they react to a bet on the flop. They will also consider the texture of the flop and must be willing to fold 2 pairs or even a set if it becomes obvious that they are up against a straight or flush.
 
M

MoorsT10

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Total posts
15
Chips
0
With the example you have, i should strongly recommend to bet the flop. It's absolutely not the nuts, but it's indeed a strong hand. So i would go for value against some kind of draws that are out there. If they fold, so be it. You probably hadn't get any value anyway.. .
 
S

Stamati87

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Total posts
24
Chips
0
I really don't think you have the nuts here... He can have a bigger hand,like a set of sixes or a set of queens ,or why not a set ok kings.

Don't think you are the best in that hand!
 
xkenjix

xkenjix

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 5, 2017
Total posts
223
Awards
1
Chips
2
def not the nuts by any means like everyone else said. saying that, since theres only 1 other play i could go 50%time bet out, 50%check/call or check/raise(wouldnt do this often tho). we need to keep bluffs in his range. A comes on the turn u could be in trouble,
 
R

robcubus

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Total posts
274
Awards
1
Chips
1
That example is bad,.. a set crash your two pair,.. lol
 
lilcharlierich

lilcharlierich

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Total posts
77
Chips
0
Its tough to do but when you pull it off its sweeet
 
ByronP

ByronP

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Total posts
106
Chips
0
how would you say you have the nuts with that example? One could've easily limped in with a pair & made a set with that flop. or a open ended straight or a flush. And the buttons range is pretty wide.
I would've likely gone with a value bet. under half the pot.
But many factors also come into play. Like your position and player style. And if you are raising from an early position, your range is also very limited. so not that hard to figure out.

I'm no expert but those are my thoughts

I would agree with Alucard. Every situation is different. What has the action been on the table? There are so many factors. Chip stack. table presence . even how your own performance have been did you limp in on other hands get aggressive when you had a good hand. depending on the experience at the table. there is not a standard check call/check raise situation it is dependent upon.
 
D

dejan85

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
712
Chips
0
I dont think that is nuts position someone could have set of 6,but good solution is chek raise for me....
 
H

Hellokeko

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Total posts
40
Chips
0
3/4 pot bet regardless since other players could be chasing either a flush or a straight, but it also depends on action play that's going on at the table
 
dimon4ik89

dimon4ik89

Visionary
Platinum Level
Joined
Oct 3, 2017
Total posts
621
Awards
3
UA
Chips
341
In this situation, which you gave as an example, the nuts are the set of kings

In this situation, which you gave as an example, the nuts are the set of kings, on the turn the nuts can change, the opponent can open a straight or flush, as well as on the river. When you have a really nuts and you do not care about anything, you'd better check up to the river, or bet small amounts that would not scare the opponent. In general, it is desirable to play the nuts so that it would be like either bluffing or checking and letting the opponent know that you do not have any matches at all, so that your opponent will start acting first.
 
B

brandonnj

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Total posts
105
Chips
0
Although it's not the nuts you still have a really strong hand. Now you need to find out what your opponents have. A bet of around 50% pot size should give you plenty of information. If your opponent has something like AK or TJ with a straight draw he's likely to just call. If he has a set he's likely to raise unless he's known to slow play monster hands.

Pre-flop action also tells you a lot of what you're up against. In this situation it is very unlikely that you're facing KK or QQ because most players would have 3 betted you pre-flop. That leaves hands like AK/AQ/TJ/66 to consider. If your opponents call and the turn is an Ace you could be in trouble.

A good poker player will learn to not only think about his own cards but about what his opponents might have based on how they reacted pre-flop and how they react to a bet on the flop. They will also consider the texture of the flop and must be willing to fold 2 pairs or even a set if it becomes obvious that they are up against a straight or flush.
This is a nice line of thinking, sometimes I freeze up in these spots wondering how much to bet, when the turn comes out ill be lost. I forget to think about the other player sometimes and get stuck on myself lol.
 
C

chronical

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Total posts
1,128
Awards
1
Chips
1
Here is a bit different aproach maybe you can appriciate.
I've noticed that agains 2 polorized players (fish/good regs) you will have a lot of value by donking. I know that you always read that you Cbet, but never donk but I tell you the ammount of calls I had with A highst to river with flush from the flop or set or... something is amazing. Maybe try it out from time.... you know to ballance the ranges =)
 
U

ucdengboss

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Total posts
202
Chips
0
I think that I will mirror what others have said to a degree. You do not have the nuts but you do have a strong hand. In these cases I feel there are two strong reasons for betting straight out and not checking the hand.

1. You have top two pair and there is a very good chance you have the best hand at this time. You should therefore put money in the pot for value. If others will call with second best and drawing hands like KJ, AK, JT, AJ, etc then you should get value from them. Your opponent can have a reasonable range of calling hands since he knows he will act last.

2. It is such a mistake to give a free card to a drawing hand here. There are two broadway cards on the flop and if there are two suits (or 3 to a suit flop) then you will have a good chance of running into either a straight draw or flush draw and maybe both. You cannot give a free card here. Even a small bet is so much better than a free card.

#2 above may be different if the board were K93 rainbow and I held say 99. Now my holding is stronger and the board is not coordinated at all. I can afford to give a free card here or at least give a cheap card. I probably bet 50% of the pot here. In this case I am only losing to one hand (KK) and the best anyone can draw to is maybe a gutshot. I also will fill up or make quads a reasonable amount of time.

With this in mind for your example holding QK on a QK6 board then I bet here nearly all the time. As for bet size I would say at a minimum I bet 50% of the pot but probably not more than 75% of the pot. I am not a fan of check raising due to the risk that I give the turn away free and with little to no information being gained. What would you do if you gave the turn card free and it was a 3rd to a suit card that was an ace, jack, or ten? Yikes those are terrible cards for your hand.
 
Top