re: Poker & Playing an awkward stack?
Originally Posted by ssbn743
Yeah I see where you’re going and even get it – this is a bad example because my stack size was so….Well, awkward!
But by allowing people the rope to hang themselves, you also open yourself to the possibility that your villain spikes a set while you’re unable to foldu-huh, but we're thinking long term. The amount of times they spike a set will be more than compensated for by the amount of times they call and fold postflop. Or call and hit something worse postflop and we get their chips. And we know having a big stack in a tournament setting is kinda a big deal. With smaller stack sizes this fact is negligible as you’re almost never able to fold. But with a very awkward stack, like mine in this example, where technically speaking I could fold, but probably won’t, raising sets yourself up to get cracked or win the blinds anyway.We have around 15 bb adjusted. It's far from akward really. Most of the time it's just raise, c-bet, shove turn. If anyone gives us action postflop, we snap them off or shove on them, it's really not rocket science.
But, I’m not arguing, I just think it’s a grey area across a very fine line when choosing your course of action. By the third consecutive shove, I think shoving is the only way to play.
Originally Posted by doomasiggy
The reason why we shove preflop vs short stacks is because we want them to fold pre. We want to pick up the max amount of chips we can without being forced into tricky spots postflop. The way to max our value vs nitty players who fold a lot is to shove wider than we normally would, since we have more fold equity. We don't want to see a flop, we want to scare people off.Yeah, cool. But we're not talking about shoving wide here vs nits. We're talking about the OP, which clearly shows that he was playing three monster hands.
I get what your saying, but I think it only really applies when people are deeper than what they were in OP.This is completely untrue. THe great thing about this stack size postflop is, it doesnt matter what we do postflop, we're really just letting people hit worse hands postflop, we're never folding.
Vs short stacks it's completely differant, because we're not shoving our stack anymore, we're shoving the short stackers stack. But also we're never in tricky spots postflop, we're never folding vs them anyways. In the op he has 30k chips, I've never used 'M' but effectively, accounting for antes we have around 15BB, which isn't really a stack we want to be just shoving our monsters with. It's really the perfect stack to be raising our monsters with. As mentioned before, we're never ever ever ever ever in a tough spot postflop. Usually we just raise pre/c-bet flop and take it down, or they shove on our c-bet and we make an easy call.
Anyways to summarize.
Shoving takes all the mistakes our opponants will make away from them. They are forced into a tough decision for all or most of their chips. Most live players will be hesitant to call big shoves for numerous reasons(looking stupid, big money/passive).
Raising allows them to do two things they probably shouldn't:-
-They can call(bad players like to call, it lets them see flops)... good, so again, we have no real decisions to make postflop. Just bet and get it in, nothing tricky here.
-They can re-raise us preflop(good players like to re-raise, they see it on TV and they think it's a good spot to shove)... Sweet, plays right into our plan.
-They can all fold... Same result as shoving.
- We can get multiple callers... No big deal, the pot will be pretty big by then so we can just shove flops.