Is the play at Sit N Go's getting better?

Hi All,

This is my first post, been lurking for quite a while.
I've been playing poker on and off for five years and have recently gotten back into it after having a break for a few months. I mostly play $1.00 sit n go's on pokerstars and manage to make it into the money enough times to turn a small profit.

I've played a few sit n go's latey where 3/4 of the players are still in the game during what I would call the late stages where the blinds are quite high like $100-$200. It's been frustrating me a bit because i'm used to there only being about 3-4 players left at this stage, and obviously trying to make the money is a lot harder as it's just a push and shove frenzy. Is this becoming more of a frequent occurance?? or have I just been unlucky and been at some tables with some really good players??

Regards,
Paul.

Welcome to CC. I used to play small SNG's (1.00+.10) and it is usually a donkfest, and over time the rake is going to really hurt your profits (10%). The higher levels have more skill in them, as the payouts are higher (obv.) A "push and shove frenzy" usually doesn't mean you ran into really good players. Most likely you have just been getting unlucky (An important aspect of poker is variance). Good luck at the tables...keep us updated

Its just one of those things sometimes I have started 4 games and I will be heads up in one have 3 players in the other and more in the other two. If you play alot maybe see when the games are going quicker at certain times when the fishies come out. There has been changes over the years in poker though that will also attribute to the change, countries annexing their player base off from the rest of the world etc.

Poke_Her_Face said:

Welcome to CC. I used to play small SNG's (1.00+.10) and it is usually a donkfest, and over time the rake is going to really hurt your profits (10%). The higher levels have more skill in them, as the payouts are higher (obv.) A "push and shove frenzy" usually doesn't mean you ran into really good players. Most likely you have just been getting unlucky (An important aspect of poker is variance). Good luck at the tables...keep us updated

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i believe stars is actually $1.20 (20% rake is insane!) for the smaller sizes sng's

i would recommend the larger sng's on full tilt for $1.10 or if you only play on stars do the $0.25 no rake sng's as well as the $2.20 90 man sng

for me $1.20 is just way way too much rake to help build your bankroll

gl!

While it's been a while since I've played the $1 games (and they were on Tilt, not Stars) I'd be surprised if the overall level of play was improving.

Also, I don't really think it's necessarily an indication that players are "better" when there's still more of them left at higher blinds. Tighter, sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean better.

What you'll probably find is this is just a few odd games. I play turbos and one of the ones I played this morning still had five players left at 300-600 blinds, a stage most other games don't even get to. Some games just run longer than others and the big pots where players get knocked out early just don't happen for some reason.

I think the standard of poker in general is better, thanks to the inclusion of training sites, and books etc. Books for sng's like collin moshman are helping complete tards breakeven..

and isnt playing 'tight' in early stages of sng better?

Theres still loads of fish out there. I think during certain times of the day, there are more fish, like evening times in america the play is usually pretty bad, but other times, the play gets better. Also table selecting is helpful. Like not joining tables with 3-4regs on it. To check this, use the table filter on stars or whatever, and see how many players are queing.

WiZZiM said:

and isnt playing 'tight' in early stages of sng better?

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In general, absolutely.

I'm just thinking if there's still 7 players left at 100-200 then the average stack is just under 10BB and you'd have expected the shove-folding to have already started. It makes me think either the cards just haven't fallen right for shoves to start getting called / knockouts to happen or, more likely, we've got a few more nits in the game than is normal.

As for the standard of play you're probably right for higher levels. I was thinking about the $1 games where it's unlikely books and training sites will have much influence

OzExorcist said:

In general, absolutely.

I'm just thinking if there's still 7 players left at 100-200 then the average stack is just under 10BB and you'd have expected the shove-folding to have already started. It makes me think either the cards just haven't fallen right for shoves to start getting called / knockouts to happen or, more likely, we've got a few more nits in the game than is normal.

As for the standard of play you're probably right for higher levels. I was thinking about the $1 games where it's unlikely books and training sites will have much influence

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Maybe but I would say more players are starting off by going to forums and reading a book or two and the standard has improved I think since I first started maybe not a great deal but also now on my site we have no Italian players and less french (not calling those countries donks btw) I find myself playing the same people a lot.

Mr McCluskey said:

Maybe but I would say more players are starting off by going to forums and reading a book or two and the standard has improved I think since I first started maybe not a great deal but also now on my site we have no Italian players and less french (not calling those countries donks btw) I find myself playing the same people a lot.

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I am.

I agree that the $1 sng's probably havent improoved much, i was just using my experiance with teh 3.40s the level has definately improoved, hell 4 years ago the 16 turbo was easier than the 3.40's are now!

WiZZiM said:

I am.

I agree that the $1 sng's probably havent improoved much, i was just using my experiance with teh 3.40s the level has definately improoved, hell 4 years ago the 16 turbo was easier than the 3.40's are now!

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Hehe to be fair I was playing the 18 man games and I deff felt a difference from when I first started but I have been surprised at how many mass multi tablers there are in the 3$ 9 mans I have played since we started the bet and I think its because the pool is a little smaller and games dont fill up as fast as they used too. Maybe I should go turbo lol.

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I may actually give the turbo's a go to break things up a bit.

Paul.

Apex81 said:

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I may actually give the turbo's a go to break things up a bit.

Paul.

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Remeber Turbos are more swingy and after todays games I take back what I said there are a shed load of idiots in these games

I save all my games

Yes play is getting better because people have become more educated in the game, and back a few years ago every one and their brother was checking out online play and either quit or got better.

Its also cause of the US outlawing online gambling. This has forced all players to play on the bigger and more secure poker sites (Full Tilt, Pstars etc.)

The rake is pretty bad at those levels on stars, you could try the $1.40 knockout SnGs instead of the $1 + $0.20. They encourage wilder play and do not allow queuing, so are not popular with multitablers.

I play <$5 SnG's at stars at the moment but am thinking of moving away after I complete my bonus. The high rake and lack of rakeback has seriously dented my returns.

I reckon if anything its worse, more popular poker gets and its continuously growing more new players show up thinking any ace high, any suited cards are good etc

I don't think the players are getting better. On Full Tilt I believe the better players have moved to Rush Poker and left the donks to run the regular games.

I think in my relatively short venture into online poker, I have noticed players getting better. I have played some guys a lot - I do 2$ SnG on FT and 3$ SnG on PKR - and some real donks who have financed many of my games in the past have been surprising me lately by actually playing better. So the donks are not ALL asleep at the wheel. I also see more tables now where its not 7 seeing the flop but 2 or 3. I still love it when I am on a table and in the first 15 hands 6-8 people see every flop, but I notice that this trait in particular seems to be not as often as it was....sadly......

it definately is improving because of what wizzim says the training sites and sng coaches have tons to do with as well. most people starting to learn how to beat the sngs will start at the very low stakes. and many of these players will multitable(turbos especially). this helps populate the games with semi solid regulars although they dont stay long at these stakes they do get replaced by new players.

Yes the play at micro stakes sng's is improving (and in other formats too.. ie. MTT). It's poker forums where members teach all the fish out there how to play, cutting into their profit margin while doing so.

OP, reading you stating that the game becomes a 'shove/fold frenzy',... this is where you can gain a BIG edge on your opponents - learning to make correct plays according to ICM (knowing when you need to shove, call, fold, resteal shove w FE, etc.). Learn this part of the game & you should do well.

As far as someone stating that '10%' rake (tourney fee) being too high in micros... yes it's high BUT it's 10% pretty much across the board until you're playing buyins at $100+ (even at $100 it's 9%, at $200+ it's 7.5%, but everything $50 & under is 10% so I'm not sure what they're suggesting to ya? ... play $200 buyins?)