is this the perfect double or nothing strategy?

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crazywest

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hey guys i recently stummbled across this DoN strategey which ive had mixed results with after reading it, it makes so much sence and it more or less does work but i wanna hear what you people think of it its too long to paste so heres the link.


dont be put off by its lenth its an interesting read
http://www.onlinefreeplaypoker.com/double-up-or-nothing-sng-poker-strategy/

tell me what you think , thanks
 
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crazywest

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so what you saying its good or bad?
 
cjatud2012

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finnell

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I really like the DON .It can be a great way to build a BR with lil risk.
 
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crazywest

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lol no one has said if that strategey is any good or not??
 
cjatud2012

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no one's read it because it's really long and not many people here play DON's, to be honest. From glancing over it the strategy seems pretty solid, but yeah.
 
serendipity

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I read the whole thing and decided to try it out. The strategy is solid, but keep in mind that the guy is playing $100 buy ins. I play low and micro stakes, so I decided to open it up a bit.

I still folded AK in the early blinds like he suggests, but decided to add QQ to the all-in hands instead of just KK and AA. I also called small raises with any pair hoping for a set, and folded when it did not come (as the strategy recommends).

Mid and late game I played his strategy exactly as he lays it out.

I played 4 double or nothings (three $6 and one $11) and won 3 of them.

4 sit and gos is not a big enough sample size, but I am going to try a few more over the upcoming weeks to see if my good start can be extended.

Thanks for the link!
 
kmixer

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I have played the DoN format in the past and so I decided to read this article. I find it to be an interesting look on the format. I do ok with the DoN game but I usually play the PLO ones at PS.

I have 9 bucks over at Carbon. i have already played and lost one using this strategy but i will try it again till i bust my BR at Carbon (or hopefully grow it to be able to play more there.)

The hand busted on I was all in in late blind level with an M of 10 and looked down at 77. I pushed all in and got called by the SB who had KK and they held.

I think the play here was right.

Game 2 starting now at Carbon
 
kmixer

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Game 2 down the drain. Played the late game strategy which states to be all in with Any Pair, Any Ace, any 2 Royal cards, and any Suited Connector on the CO. I had QJ off and pushed all in to be called by the BB with AA. My M was way low at this point I suffered a hit during mid level play as well and should have been out of this thing way earlier.

Two games is no way to tell if something will work however i am very uncomfortable with folding AK and AQ suited in late positions in the early play levels which is what this strategy suggsts. I think these are great spots to get a weaker Ace playing.

Registered for Game 3 now.
 
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buzzmania

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im assuming different stratagies work differentlt at different stakekes.i usuallu play lower buyins and do pretty well but had any luck at higher buyins with it.will give this a try at a higher buyin and see what happens.
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

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I have played the DoN format in the past and so I decided to read this article. I find it to be an interesting look on the format. I do ok with the DoN game but I usually play the PLO ones at PS.

I have 9 bucks over at Carbon. i have already played and lost one using this strategy but i will try it again till i bust my BR at Carbon (or hopefully grow it to be able to play more there.)

The hand busted on I was all in in late blind level with an M of 10 and looked down at 77. I pushed all in and got called by the SB who had KK and they held.

I think the play here was right.

Game 2 starting now at Carbon

Slight tangent-- maybe it's just me but PLO DON's don't seem very profitable. Considering the huge edge in equity you need to make calls in NLHE DON's, how can it ever be profitable to call in PLO?

Also no one uses M for SNG's, it's about the BB's baby.
 
kmixer

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I read the whole thing and decided to try it out. The strategy is solid, but keep in mind that the guy is playing $100 buy ins. I play low and micro stakes, so I decided to open it up a bit.

I still folded AK in the early blinds like he suggests, but decided to add QQ to the all-in hands instead of just KK and AA. I also called small raises with any pair hoping for a set, and folded when it did not come (as the strategy recommends).

Mid and late game I played his strategy exactly as he lays it out.

I played 4 double or nothings (three $6 and one $11) and won 3 of them.

4 sit and gos is not a big enough sample size, but I am going to try a few more over the upcoming weeks to see if my good start can be extended.

Thanks for the link!

Would def want to dfiscuss this strategy more with you here. Look forward to hearing your results form the next few games you play.
 
kmixer

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Game 3 late blinds 7 people left look down at 88 folded around to me in the CO so i do what the strategy says and go all in. Called by AQ and lose.

I am gonna see it through to the end of my BR on carbon but I am beginning to think this is NOT the perfect strategy for this game.

I have enough to play 5 more which i will most likely do tomorrow.
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

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Game 3 late blinds 7 people left look down at 88 folded around to me in the CO so i do what the strategy says and go all in. Called by AQ and lose.

I am gonna see ti through to the end of my BR on carbon but I am beginning to think this is NOT the perfect strategy for this game.

I have enough to play 5 more which i will most likely do tomorrow.

How can you draw any conclusions on the strategy from three games/ one hand? We don't even know what the blinds or stack sizes were, so there's no way to judge the play anyway.

Do you have the hand history? Try posting that in Tournament HA and you might learn more about whether you played the hand correctly or not.
 
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I play $5 and $10 DoNs fairly regularly, and I'd say that this is a fairly well developed strategy article. In fact, I would recommend it to any beginning DoN player, as it does a good job hammering the key difference in playing the DoNs.

One thing that was new to me was the idea of restealing, something I never really do without a big hand. I'm still not sure if I'm willing to try it too often, but in tough mid-games it could be a solid play.
 
kmixer

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How can you draw any conclusions on the strategy from three games/ one hand? We don't even know what the blinds or stack sizes were, so there's no way to judge the play anyway.

Do you have the hand history? Try posting that in Tournament HA and you might learn more about whether you played the hand correctly or not.

Sorry i thought I made it very clear that i didnt think three games was enough to draw a conclusion on.

On another note I played two games at PS tonight NOT using this strategy and won them both. They were PLO though ;)
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

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Sorry i thought I made it very clear that i didnt think three games was enough to draw a conclusion on.

On another note I played two games at PS tonight NOT using this strategy and won them both. They were PLO though ;)

ah okay, my bad.

So you do feel the PLO DON's are beatable? Did you read this post?

Slight tangent-- maybe it's just me but PLO DON's don't seem very profitable. Considering the huge edge in equity you need to make calls in NLHE DON's, how can it ever be profitable to call in PLO?

Also no one uses M for SNG's, it's about the BB's baby.
 
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WiZZiM

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PLO SNG's don't really make much sense to me. The equties preflop run so close it's kind of pointless, and we can never open shove on someone.
 
serendipity

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Yeah, the strategy was written for NLHE. As I don't play PLO, I am not sure whether or not this strategy would be effective (I'm leaning towards not, based on your experiences, and my limited knowledge of the game). I did not have time to play more last night, and probably won't have time until this weekend, but I will let you know if my good fortune continues.
 
fletchdad

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no need to post the article when OP has already provided the link.

I'm not a DON expert (I'm also not going to read the whole article :p) but there are some really good articles on here for DON, so lemme share those with you and you can make your own decision. Let me find them first...

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-wins-46/
^^this one is really good

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-wins-46/i-ve-joined-team-moshman-will-172545/


Tried to subscribe to the first one, its not locked, but I cant subscribe. I want to save it on CC somehow to read it at leisure. I can just bookmark the page in my browser, but anyway to have it in my subscriptions?


No big deal, I have it bookmarked, just was wonderin......
 
kmixer

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ah okay, my bad.

So you do feel the PLO DON's are beatable? Did you read this post?

I believe that they are beatable. The problem I have as a player, is that I don't stick to any one thing long enough to find out if I am good at it or not. I take a downswing and then move to another game. This is something I have been trying to work on.

I played a 100 game challenge over the summer and did fairly well at it so it might be time to do that again. Maybe I will do a 100 game PLO DoN challenge and track my playing in these and my and progress. I can also post key hands for others to have a look and help with with / learn from.

I agree that SnGs go by the BBs but M is a factor in this strategy guide because Ante is a factor.
 
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kmixer

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PLO SNG's don't really make much sense to me. The equties preflop run so close it's kind of pointless, and we can never open shove on someone.

See to me that ius exactly why they are better than NLHE DoNs if you are a competent PLO player. Think about it. Hand one of a DoN game and you have three people that enter the hand while you fold your JJxx. Now the flop comes out and it gets all in after the flop. One guy had AAxx another is on a flush draw and another has the nut straight with flush re draw. End of hand two players gone. That doesn't happen very often in the HE games I have played in.

The fact that we can never open shove is true but in PLO this may not always be the best play anyway. It's all about the push and pull.

In these games we are not trying to have all of the chips (although that will ensure we make into top 5) we are trying to stay enough about average all of the time that we are never at risk of going out 6th.

It is my opinion that you need to double up early in these in order to survive to the top 5. Playing the strategy in the OP of this thread that is pretty hard since in the early stages we are only playing pairs.
 
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kmixer

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I should also note that the games I have played at Carbon are turbos and the PLO games I play at PS are also turbos. At Carbon there is no choice. They run fast. At PS I do have a choice but the rake on the turbo is 10% while the rake on the regular is 15%.

I am not sure if the OP strategy is turbo or not.
 
pcgnome

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The article was a stimulating read, but when I glanced over the Glubikov-Sklansky shoving ranges I was left clueless.

The thing that I don't like about the micro Don's is that it's a coinflip where you pay 1.10 to win $2. You have to lose $ in the long run no matter what.

So let's say your on the bubble w/ AKo , and you shove all your chips in and get called. It's another coin flip.

However, I was able to double up on my 1st attempt, so I'll give it another try.
 
pcgnome

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Okay, my 1st hand was AA(UTG) & my 2nd hand was KK(BB);All in for a total of 60 chips.
 
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