Overly aggressive?

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Lafontaine12

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Hi there I'm wondering if one can be overly aggressive in holdem, for instance I was just in a tournement, in which I was already past the bubble and I n 68th place of 600, when i got A10s in the small blind I raised and got a call from the big blind. The flop came A 6 K I checked and he bet, I pushed I had 60+ big blinds left. He called and sure enough he has AK and I was eliminated, I find myself doing this quiet a bit of course sometimes it works. Does anyone else have this problem or is it a problem at all?
 
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iveyfan

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I think that you should have C-betted that flop with top pair... you would have got much more information with it.

If you bet and he calls, you find out a little bit more about his hand... i.e he probably has an ace or a king , because he would probably be putting you on that range with your PF raise... you might still end up losing the hand this way, but like you said, you're stack is big enough that is shouldn't matter.


If you check and he bets (you didn't specify size of his bet so tough to tell), you have to assume that he probably has Ax or 66 (based on bet sizing) or he's representing it. He called your PF raise, so he's probably not coming with junk, but now you have to determine whether he is bluffing or not, which if you C-betted you wouldn't have to do.

Obviously, you don't fold with top pair after he bets, but I would have called back there to see what he would have done on the turn... he wouldn't keep firing through 3 streets if he was bluffing. I don't think going over the top was the right move, especially given your stack size.
 
vegafx12

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Hi there I'm wondering if one can be overly aggressive in holdem, for instance I was just in a tournement, in which I was already past the bubble and I n 68th place of 600, when i got A10s in the small blind I raised and got a call from the big blind. The flop came A 6 K I checked and he bet, I pushed I had 60+ big blinds left. He called and sure enough he has AK and I was eliminated, I find myself doing this quiet a bit of course sometimes it works. Does anyone else have this problem or is it a problem at all?


It is this exact king of play that absolutely drives me crazy. Everybody does it. All the time. And it's really stupid!!

So many jackoffs shoving big stacks with mediocre hands just trying to steal the blinds + antes. I don't understand why. I see people shoving 30BB into blinds with stacks twice as big. Just to get snapped by a premium hand.

Why shove when a simple raise will do?

Not only do you find out the exact same bit of information, but you also leave yourself the option to abandon ship, fold the hand, and move on to the next. Which to me, sounds a whole lot better then the shove -> call --> bust strategy that many people tend to employ!!

It's the worst when jackoffs like you win with the A10... blank blank blank blank... OOPS! 10 on the river! Haha MB!

God I hate that shit..
 
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Lafontaine12

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Hi there I'm wondering if one can be overly aggressive in holdem, for instance I was just in a tournement, in which I was already past the bubble and I n 68th place of 600, when i got A10s in the small blind I raised and got a call from the big blind. The flop came A 6 K I checked and he bet, I pushed I had 60+ big blinds left. He called and sure enough he has AK and I was eliminated, I find myself doing this quiet a bit of course sometimes it works. Does anyone else have this problem or is it a problem at all?

I think that you should have C-betted that flop with top pair... you would have got much more information with it.

If you bet and he calls, you find out a little bit more about his hand... i.e he probably has an ace or a king , because he would probably be putting you on that range with your PF raise... you might still end up losing the hand this way, but like you said, you're stack is big enough that is shouldn't matter.


If you check and he bets (you didn't specify size of his bet so tough to tell), you have to assume that he probably has Ax or 66 (based on bet sizing) or he's representing it. He called your PF raise, so he's probably not coming with junk, but now you have to determine whether he is bluffing or not, which if you C-betted you wouldn't have to do.

Obviously, you don't fold with top pair after he bets, but I would have called back there to see what he would have done on the turn... he wouldn't keep firing through 3 streets if he was bluffing. I don't think going over the top was the right move, especially given your stack size.



I guess my thought process was in a heads up situation like this I'm expecting a reraise with someone who holds AK and I could catch them with a weaker ace or better yet KQ or J10 something like...ahhhhhh well live and learn. Thanks for your reply.
 
poliaris747

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I always say that you should have notes on every player at the table. You should have understood this player's style of play! and if he for example puts on all the streets, means that the has.
 
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300HPGOD

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It is a problem and a problem that will destroy your results as it did here. You work like crazy to build a nice stack for this point in the tournament and then you give it all away on a move that makes little sense. Its definitely a leak you need to realize you have if you do this at all much less often but one that is fixable once you know you have it.

As far this specific hand goes, what was your thought process when you jammed? Are you expecting villain to call with worse? That rarely ever seems like it would be the case so what you are doing in actuality is making a bet where your opponent gets to play perfectly against you. If they have you beat, they call and when you are winning, they fold. Maybe you have some in between hands like AJ for the villain that you get them to fold but that is such a small sliver of their range. They are folding here or calling with two pair or better almost always.

In this spot you could easily have just put in a normal sized raise which has a decent shot of getting called by worse or depending on the suits of the flop, calling here is just fine too as it keeps their crap and bluffs in the hand instead of giving them an easy fold. Jamming here is the worst option (unless you consider folding an option which in this case I don't).
 
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LFC_yllnwa

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Hi there I'm wondering if one can be overly aggressive in holdem, for instance I was just in a tournement, in which I was already past the bubble and I n 68th place of 600, when i got A10s in the small blind I raised and got a call from the big blind. The flop came A 6 K I checked and he bet, I pushed I had 60+ big blinds left. He called and sure enough he has AK and I was eliminated, I find myself doing this quiet a bit of course sometimes it works. Does anyone else have this problem or is it a problem at all?


It's very frustrating to get an AK from the big blind, but playing all in at the final stage if you have a top pair is not right. I think you should call and watch the turn and his next bet on the turn! have you studied your opponent carefully? how does it play? did you track it?

but, of course, this is a situation when the opponent is very lucky. Don't think about it, I think it happens, no problem ;) Don't rush to put all in, when nothing is decided on the table ;)
 
Vallet

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I do these things on the flop if my stack is small and the opponent often bluffs with different straight draws or flush draws. It is more correct to play a check-call in your case. But you could make a bet and if you got a re-raise, you would think very hard about the fold.
 
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Sebarios59

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Being aggressive does not only consist of going all in before the bet of an opponent, it consists of having a riskier strategy than normal, with wider ranges and other movements not only the all in.
 
Igor Popadyk

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I think in such a situation better pot control
 
gon4iypes

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It is this exact king of play that absolutely drives me crazy. Everybody does it. All the time. And it's really stupid!!

So many jackoffs shoving big stacks with mediocre hands just trying to steal the blinds + antes. I don't understand why. I see people shoving 30BB into blinds with stacks twice as big. Just to get snapped by a premium hand.

Why shove when a simple raise will do?

Not only do you find out the exact same bit of information, but you also leave yourself the option to abandon ship, fold the hand, and move on to the next. Which to me, sounds a whole lot better then the shove -> call --> bust strategy that many people tend to employ!!

It's the worst when jackoffs like you win with the A10... blank blank blank blank... OOPS! 10 on the river! Haha MB!

God I hate that shit..
Was such a rude reply really called for?? Why be so judgemental? You display your own sad lack of character for all to see. A kind reply with some thoughtful advice would have been so much better. Try it next time :)
 
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ph_il

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Hi there I'm wondering if one can be overly aggressive in holdem, for instance I was just in a tournement, in which I was already past the bubble and I n 68th place of 600, when i got A10s in the small blind I raised and got a call from the big blind. The flop came A 6 K I checked and he bet, I pushed I had 60+ big blinds left. He called and sure enough he has AK and I was eliminated, I find myself doing this quiet a bit of course sometimes it works. Does anyone else have this problem or is it a problem at all?
this is just a silly play. you win a small pot and lose a ton of value when villain folds worse hands. you lose when villain calls with better.

so, what do you hope to accomplish with a 60+ bb jam? what is the reason behind it? do you think villain is check/calling with just a weaker ace, a king, a middle pair, or some type of of draw? or are you jamming because you fear of villain catching up and beating you?

if it's the latter, there are ways you can go about dealing with this without having to put 60+ bbs at risk or giving up a ton of value. simple pot control would be a better options. this is a great spot for a standard c-bet, re-evaluate on the turn. etc. you gain nothing by jamming here and put your mtt life at unnecessary risk at the same time.
 
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ph_il

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It is this exact king of play that absolutely drives me crazy. Everybody does it. All the time. And it's really stupid!!

So many jackoffs shoving big stacks with mediocre hands just trying to steal the blinds + antes. I don't understand why. I see people shoving 30BB into blinds with stacks twice as big. Just to get snapped by a premium hand.

Why shove when a simple raise will do?

Not only do you find out the exact same bit of information, but you also leave yourself the option to abandon ship, fold the hand, and move on to the next. Which to me, sounds a whole lot better then the shove -> call --> bust strategy that many people tend to employ!!

It's the worst when jackoffs like you win with the A10... blank blank blank blank... OOPS! 10 on the river! Haha MB!

God I hate that shit..
lol. are you really this worked up over people playing how they want?

the fact that these plays will sometimes win doesnt matter. the results are completely irrelevant because it's all about equity. in your example, a10 is going to beat a better hand a percent of the time, that's just how it is. why get up over something that is inevitable?
 
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gryphon3005

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A top holdem coach, Alezander Fitzgerald, recommends avoiding playing hands like AT or KJ from the SB in the late stage of a tournament. They can get you into trouble very easily if you catch just a piece of the board.

Your aggression here, you say, was based on your assessment of the BB preflop call. You thought the BB would have re-raised with a hand like AK. Just remember that players play strong hands a little differently once they are past the bubble. Smaller stacks will often shove here since they need to chip up to make the big money. Bigger stacks will call looking to get more of your chips post flop.

Being aggressive preflop is fine....it often yields blinds and antes. But post flop you must re-assess your situation. You checked to trap the other player. When he bet you should have thought through the hand. Would a weak Ace actually bet into the preflop raiser on that board? That's when the warning bells should have gone off.
 
Alekxandrovi3

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Usually depends on the mood if I play freeroll. In normal bubble games, I don’t play like that. Always when the game is very aggressive for players who are not maniacs in the bubble, a hand worse than AQ against them is a bad hand.
 
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