Originally Posted by losched16
I am not saying that this is 100% my strategy. But as I was saying before, the reason that this has worked more frequently that you think is because players expect you to make this over shove with hands like 88 or AJ, not AA and KK. Accordingly, they stack off light.
Also, this is done against the not-so-savvy player (which there are plenty of), since a reg will not be calling all ins without a premium hand themselves.
I mean if you have a note on a guy that he will call down 3 streets with draws and bottom pair, sure, make your normal 3 bet and move forward from there. But there are times when you are able to get max value from an all in rather than a normal sized 3 bet, since the villain typically has to hit his top pair to proceed in the hand. So if you notice that a player has been known to call off his stack with 1010 or AJ early in the game, these are ideal players to use this play against, since 2/3 of the time they will miss the flop and fold.
And if you ask me whether I would rather have 1700 chips or 3k chips, I'll take the 3k. I know your equity doesn't double with your chips, but for the opportunity to double up when you typically have at least 75% equity, I'll take that too.
Well, I disagree with that part highlighted. You say this works against the not so savy players. The thing is, a not so savy player would never
think of what cards you would be doing this, they only think of their cards alone. Most definitely do not think "Hmm, he has open shoved, he is weak here, I put his range on 8'8s and A,x" I'm going to call because I think my A,Q or A,J, A,10 is good here. This would be a better than the average player who actually thought about it first. Not so savy players will ever put a range of hands someone could be open shoving with, let alone go in to detail.
The way I see it, if you have those types of players at the table who are going to stack off with anything you will find they will shove in to you more often which is fine holding Aces of course, so a standard raise will induce a shove more times than your shoves getting called. They don't think "Ok open raised standard 3bet, he has Aces" I think you will find more of these players are happy shoving into YOU but not so happy calling shoves.
I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm sure and I've seen it myself people will shove A,x etc I just personally think if you have "one" of those sort of players at the table and they like their hand they will shove in to you after your raise. If you shove in to them first, they might actually fold. As for that, if they like their hand and hit the flop, the chips can go in no problem or you can extract a lot of his chips anyway being a donkey.
As for having 3000 chips early on rather than 1500 I agree obviously a double up isn't to be sniffed at. I was just pointing out that I think you get more value long term with just raising rather than shoving this early in the tournament. As soon as someone hits that flop, quite often they will shove it and not think about what you could be holding.
I've never tried it to be honest, obviously I've been shipped on but I haven't open shoved ever with blinds that low. I think it's like slow playing/limping Aces, you don't get anywhere near as much value long term.