ouch and im busted!!!

quiet deep in a tournament and boom got a straight with him hitting trips then boats me!

http://9636939e.urlbeat.net < hand replay !

could i have played it different?

Dont complete in the SB. And if you do, know exactly what you will do OTF.

Lead OTF. You have a BD SD and BD FD. You may take it now.

Bet bigger OTT.

Once he hits his set, he may not be going anywhere, but as played, he is not going to fold.

I dont know how villain plays but when you have so many back doors OTF, IMO it is best just to lead out now since OOP is such a shitty place to be. You have to think about how strong your hand is compared to your position, and exactly this can happen. He gets free cards, hit and, even tho you look like you have a T, he has 10 outs to beat you and is getting 3::1 on a call.

Go over the hand and ask yourself what you were thinking/planning on every street. If you were just completing the SB cause you had QTs, and thought"ok, lets see what happens" then that is where you began to lose your stack.When you complete here, you HAVE to have an idea of how you are going to continue, otherwise just fold.

My first thought when I looked at the HH.... "Fold pre"

Although fletch is spot on there, I don't agree with him thinking you should've folded preflop. You had a hand with potential, had half of the call already in the pot and great pot odds to boot. Why fold there if there isn't any sort of raise?

You should've been more aggressive after the flop though. Even if you didn't have a made hand, you had a hell of a lot of ways to complete it and most likely could've taken the pot right there with a good enough bet. Be aggressive with good draws because even if you don't take it down there, you can still get there with two cards to come, and if you do it'll likely be a big payday.

Checking your draw and giving villian the free card is what cost you, and you probably would've been better checking after you hit your straight since you were OOP and someone was very likely to do your betting for you with a board texture like that. That would've been the time to put out some firepower.

I would've played the river more carefully too. Straight is good, but a paired board is very dangerous to a straight, especially when you make a sizable bet and get flat called. You gotta think the guy has SOMETHING. I probably would've checked the river there and called a small bet, but if he shoved I'd think twice.

Sometimes you gotta make the tough laydown based on the boards chemistry and how the hand played out, and the flat call on the turn was a red flag that said he's got something big, especially given the preflop flat call. It's almost dead obvious he was set mining.

I'm surprised villain didn't bet the flop though. There was only one overcard and he had a gutshot draw as well.

You didn't play the hand horrible, it was mostly a cooler. But if you were more aggressive on the flop you might've been able to win it there and avert a disaster. Really just tough luck what happened to you though.

I'm a huge proponent of folding the SB, just because there is no raise is no reason to complete. Completing the SB is a HUGE leak.

but

Folding QTs with antes and the whole table in is ridiculously nitty.

imo this is a call pre. So much in the pot already and QTs plays good multiway.

And fletch, why would he lead the flop with a gutshot? And where's the flush draw?

I'd bet more on the turn though.

fletchdad said:

Dont complete in the SB. And if you do, know exactly what you will do OTF.

Lead OTF. You have a BD SD and BD FD. You may take it now.

I dont know how villain plays but when you have so many back doors OTF, IMO it is best just to lead out now since OOP is such a shitty place to be. You have to think about how strong your hand is compared to your position, and exactly this can happen. He gets free cards, hit and, even tho you look like you have a T, he has 10 outs to beat you and is getting 3::1 on a call.

Go over the hand and ask yourself what you were thinking/planning on every street. If you were just completing the SB cause you had QTs, and thought"ok, lets see what happens" then that is where you began to lose your stack.When you complete here, you HAVE to have an idea of how you are going to continue, otherwise just fold.

My first thought when I looked at the HH.... "Fold pre"

Click to expand...

Foxhound3857 said:

You should've been more aggressive after the flop though. Even if you didn't have a made hand, you had a hell of a lot of ways to complete it

Click to expand...

Am I missing something here??? Where is the FD?

Hand Information
pokerstars No Limit, 1400 BB (7 handed).
Hand History converter courtesy of pokerhandreplays.com

Table Information
Seat: 1 ilnero1900 ($50746) Big Blind
Seat: 2 giogor ($25859)
Seat: 3 scopotop ($31005)
Seat: 5 sanbel56 ($59196)
Seat: 6 martina2121 ($60153)
Seat: 7 generalelee7 ($86674) Dealer
Seat: 8 maxrizza ($24570) Small Blind
Seat 1ilnero1900 Ante: 175
Seat 2giogor Ante: 175
Seat 3scopotop Ante: 175
Seat 5sanbel56 Ante: 175
Seat 6martina2121 Ante: 175
Seat 7generalelee7 Ante: 175
Seat 8maxrizza Ante: 175
Dealt to maxrizza
* *

Preflop (Pot:3325)
giogor****CALL $1400
scopotop****FOLD
sanbel56****CALL $1400
martina2121****FOLD
generalelee7****CALL $1400
maxrizza****CALL $700
ilnero1900****CHECK

Flop(Pot: $8575)
* * *

maxrizza****CHECK
ilnero1900****CHECK
giogor****CHECK
sanbel56****CHECK
generalelee7****CHECK

Turn(Pot: $8575)
* * * *

maxrizza****BET $4112
ilnero1900****FOLD
giogor****FOLD
sanbel56****CALL $4112
generalelee7****FOLD

River(Pot: $16799)
* * * * *

maxrizza****ALL-IN
sanbel56****CALL $18883
Showdown:
maxrizza SHOWS
* *
sanbel56 SHOWS
* *
sanbel56**wins the pot: $16799

i agree, if i had 9,2 off i would fold .. given it was suited and potential
just costed me dearly

I'd for sure call pre here.
Flop I'd never bet.
Turn I'd bet a bit more ~2/3 pot

'nh' 'ul'

*EDIT: Misread your post Fletchdad. But donking out a gutshot with a backdoor flush draw(4% at best to hit that) in a 5way limped pot it just awful.

kinda nothing you could do here...There can always be stronger hand but u had no risk for geting flushed, and u got strongest straight, just bad luck.

I had also 1 situation that made me angry....In had holding 55, flop 5 4 4 (full house) bet, turn J, all in river 9...and guess what other guy holding, its 9 9...pwned by stronger full house :S

I'm raising this preflop as I have learned that if I play a hand, that hand better be worth a raise.
If it's not worth a raise its not really worth playing IMO unless your set-mining a low/med PP from EP/MP.

shinedown.45 said:

I'm raising this preflop as I have learned that if I play a hand, that hand better be worth a raise.
If it's not worth a raise its not really worth playing IMO unless your set-mining a low/med PP from EP/MP.

Click to expand...

set-mining a low PP from EP/MP on these stacks would be terrible obv. (< not sure if that's what you're referring to?)

So you're suggesting 'raise'? How much? You only have 17bb's here & wiht 3 limpers & antes you'd need to be raising ~1/3 of your stack which would only leave you with ~pot-sized bet if called by 1 player.
So is 'the plan' to raise 1/3 stack OOP, then shove a pot-sized bet on any flop? (what are we doing on the flop if called pre? Are we possibly raising pre & c/f flop??).
In other words (imo), I'm not raising this pre.

Poker Orifice said:

I'd for sure call pre here. I am a nit
Flop I'd never bet. I am an agro donk
Turn I'd bet a bit more ~2/3 pot yea this sounds right maybe even a bit more

'nh' 'ul'

Click to expand...

OK, I must digest this...... I folded the call and bet the check.....

i dont like completing the small blind

but with all the limpers and suited QT i am completing this all day long, never ever betting the flop, thats just horrendous

turn i am betting 6/7k

and the rest is just ul, but not getting away from it

I don't mind completing here from the SB with the huge odds and massive potential this hand has. < < Not sure why people are saying it's a huge leak to call here when you factor in odds and our hand, if it flops/turns well then it's huge like it was.

I think your turn bet was to small though (not that you can put anyone on a set at this point)

Don't really like the shove though. You're only being called by hands that beat you, the very obvious limping hand in this postion are low/medium pocket pairs , as it is a limped pot, any 5'5s-9'9 are all limping at this point, J,xsuited is in a limping range, J,8,J,9,J,10. all sorts of crap here that is limping that smash this flop/turn/river.

The problem here is the small turn bet and then river, I'd seriously consider c/f (if he shoves) or calling of a smallish bet but you have to ask yourself what is he calling the turn here with and in most cases it is a two pair sort of hand, (even a pocket pair/set) 9,10/J,7,J,8,J,9,J,10/Q,10 also. These sort of river cards in limped pots sucks so bad, you see soooo much J,x (FH's here) The jack is an awful card for us, the only hand that calls us that we beat here is J,10 and we have a 10 ourselves. I can't see J,Q/K,J calling a river shover bet I think it's marginal for J,Q/K,J to even call the turn bet as near every card is bad for us on the river and I wouldn't fancy calling of another bet on the river with Q,J/K,J even if the river was a complete blank with this horrid board. So,So many twos pairs on the turn here.


After all though, it is a horrible spot...but I'm never happy to call a shove on that river card, let alone shove my chips in.

I think I would of bet like pot on the turn (shoving maybes?! with 2 to act still I think can be good ) I think you can get someones stack in most cases on the turn here who has two pairs/sets/10,x and are folding out nearly every river card unless it's paired like it is.

Does anyone think this could be a shove pre?

Aldito said:

Does anyone think this could be a shove pre?

Click to expand...

Yeah I thought that...has some equity too if called and likely too be called in most cases so I don't like flipping or being slightly behind here.

Problem is, I think we have limped middle pairs a lot here and if they are bad (which I think most of them are with all the limping), will just call anyway and I don't like having an AIPF here :<

Shove pre is good.

Aldito said:

Does anyone think this could be a shove pre?

Click to expand...

Yeah thats what I initially thought but I guess that comes down to table image. Me personally I would decide the range of the first limped (does he limp with premium hAnd or just trying to see flop) then go from there. Whatever you do your def calling, folding pre is not an option(I saw that as a suggestion in earlier post).... In regard to how the hand played out set Is probably only folding to huge bet.

Shove or call pre. I prefer shoving.

Rest of hand is completely fine.

Ram, do you realise how short we are? We have no decision to make on the turn apart from how much to make it to get all the chips in the middle. He played this fine.. Probably making it slightly larger so we can shove the river would be better. Oh and it's a leak of many players, beacuse even though we only put in 700, we usually spew long term in this spot. We miss most flops, sometimes we're put in akward positions when we do hit second pair or something. And sometimes when we do actually flop a hand, no one else may be willing to put chips in.

Fletch, this is a terrible flop to lead out, we have no idea how the other 4 people will react, and even though we have a piece of it, they probably have a piece of it too, and we can't really afford to bet/fold flops with our stack size.