Originally Posted by WiZZiM
you would open shove an 18BB stack in preflop?
fwiw, lets filter for 12bb stacks and below, you can probably jam 14-15bbs with antes, but you still should probably raise/call with that stack size. The reason i like raise/calling so much is it allows people to make mistakes by jamming with AJ-AT, but also smaller pocket pairs which would have called all in preflop may make a mistake and just call, allowing us to c-bet them off the hand postflop.
If you regularly jam 12+BB stacks, you will get called by better a lot of the time, it's not hard, since pairs are technically better than AQ. You are basically allowing them to play well against you.
if you have the time to filter it down and work out if you are still making profit from the jam, i'd be interested to see the results. however they are at the mercy of a small sample i would assume. yes, 190 is a small sample.
Darnit! I just spent 20 minutes replying to this on my tablet
and lost the whole thing. Anyway, excellent post WiZZ. Very helpfull.
Lets see if i can sumarize. 20 bb's is about the shortest stack ill raise with preflop before I start open shoving any pair or AT+ hand from any position. My late position shoving range is wider. Anything shorter than that and I just dont feel like there's enough left in the tank to get anyone off a hand post flop that would call preflop. Id rather take full advantage of preflop fold equity with a hand that's battle ready when I do get called. AQ certainly meets the requirement but i was surprised that it wasn't more of a favorite.
Yes, 190 instances is a small sample size, but that is still almost 3000 tournaments. And yes it is still profitable. Im actually sitting on a beach drinking coffee on the Maine coast right now (life is good) so I dont have access to my database.
There's alot of merit to what you wrote and im going to look into this further. a couple of thoughts though, it seems like by only raise / c-betting im not taking full advantage of the strength of the hand. Basically I should have the same success rate with any 2 cards. There must be a cutoff where one play is optimal over another. Is it AQ, AJs, AK? I dont know but I'm definately going to look into this further.
This turned out to be alot different from my earlier reply. For the better I think.