Open limping in $1 9 man SNGs

NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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OK so I've just come back to online poker after a few years away and I'm playing the $1 9-man SNGs at Full Tilt. It seems odd to me that you pay a lower percentage of rake on their $1 turbo 9-man SNGs than you do on their $2.25 turbo 9-man SNGs, but that's not the point of this thread.

One thing that I had drummed into my head fairly thoroughly when I was trying to learn poker before was never to open limp. Has that advice changed over the last couple of years? The reason I ask is because limping is rife in these tournaments, and even a lot of the guys that are multitabling on 6 to 8 tables open limp.

I'm not just talking about when the blinds are high and a few players are left, it's happening in the earlier stages, too.
 
Huwww

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Lots of people like to limp with speculative hands early on so that if they do hit a set there's often a fair few people still in the pot who can pay them off. I personally play very tightly early on only playing premium hands until there's about 6 or so players left and then I open up more and start to get involved with more pots to avoid being destroyed by the blinds.
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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I'm not complaining - because it tends to help me - but I just wondered whether the advice to "never open limp" had changed, because I hear Joe Stapleton and James Hartigan talking about how much online play has changed over the last couple of years but they tend not to be very specific about exactly what has changed.
 
Zorba

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You will find it is mainly the fish that do that, I see it all the time and if you raise them they mainly fold.

Lots of them do it with crappy hands hoping to hit the flop.



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Huwww

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You will find it is mainly the fish that do that, I see it all the time and if you raise them they mainly fold.

Yeah, you can often see who the better players are over the first few hands just by how loose they are.
 
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WiZZiM

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You can certainly open limp or limp behind in these games. It becomes worse to do so when you get past the 3 dollar games. You dont have to limp but if you can play hands decently postflop it should add a few percent to your overall roi.

Open limp small to medium pairs and limp behind others in multiway pota with multiway hands like 87s and such.
 
TeUnit

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think you limp in early position with small pairs when the blinds are 40 or below, and raise those hands in late position if nobody else has entered the pot(otherwise overlimp)

think limping at above 40 chip blind level in a standard nine man format you are probably burning equity
 
Marcwantstowin

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I find these open limpers mainly are either inexperienced players or just fish playing a very loose range. As has been said I feel you probably need to make sure you are only playing premium hands against them. I have discovered to my cost that these people are better left to cut off there own faces.

An example of this would be in late pos with JJ and you have 2 limpers already in the pot so I raise about pot size and get a call. Obviously the flop shows a king and then I find that one of the limpers has K 3 or something similar. They see the flop and thats it no matter how you play they arn't laying down their hands...........damn damn.

As you can tell this has happened to me a few times, normally at the start of a tournament. Oh well - gl to you and be tight early is my advice.:D :D :D
 
belerophon

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The only rare exception to the advice to never open limp is when you sitting there UTG with aces on the first hand and your looking for someone to read you as a fish; just like all the players above are reading those limpers as fish.

Someone raises you up with their wired pair and then bam! like a dbl donkey you insta-shove over the top with rockets.

It's a rare but very sweet feeling. The difference between catching frogs with a net and landing a marlin off the coast.

I highly recommend trying this at least once.
 
mendiolacubicle

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I think open-limping is fine as long as you have a plan and a great reason on why. It adds trickiness and makes you more unpredictable to other players.

I'm not an expert but it's just my opinion😁😁😁
 
gus201

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Its a another trend that came about a year or so ago.
Most players will limp to see a flop and post flop play ya.

You will also notice players checking and /or calling going to the river and then betting which has always been a no no . Funny how things change and how many follow.

Welcome back and Good Skill at the tables

Oh yea Min betting doesnt always mean fish , we have to look at how they play then determine that . This reminds me of a post Ill put out.
 
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losties

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The only time I think I would limp would be when I'm multitabling and have lost a bit of concentration. I try not to do it or do it when I' stuck and unsure what the opponent has. I see it often in the 9 man SNG, it's a common strategy in those low SNG I think and people usually shut down after the flop or turn, especially not hitting anything.
 
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Nope, open limping is still bad....

In these low buyin tourneys/sng's just tighten up and play your value hands. Most people will call you down with any piece of the board. However, if you see someone playing complete fit or fold on the flop then you might want to start 3-betting/isolating them.
 
Zorba

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Its a another trend that came about a year or so ago.
Most players will limp to see a flop and post flop play ya.

You will also notice players checking and /or calling going to the river and then betting which has always been a no no . Funny how things change and how many follow.

Welcome back and Good Skill at the tables

Oh yea Min betting doesnt always mean fish , we have to look at how they play then determine that . This reminds me of a post Ill put out.

Yes it does


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dj11

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NFW, if you remember, the standard PFR used to be 3x +, it is now barely more than a min-raise, and everyone has realized the value of seeing a cheap flop. So yeah, there is a lot more limping going on these days, and I disagree with Z, it doesn't mean fishiness. It means that more folks have more confidence in their post flop game IMHO.
 
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If you're open limping at these stakes, it will be very very hard for you to be profitable, to simplify it, this isn't 2008 poker anymore where limping is the norm, if you have a bunch of limpers at your table it's a sign you're at a fishy table. The norm sizing as these stakes should be 3x before antes, 2.5x in early ante levels, 2x or 2.2x in mid-late ante levels+ add 1bb for each limper+ 0.5bb if OOP. Limping behind with certain hands that you don't feel you can iso-raise is certainly fine, however making a habit of limping behind too wide is a mistake
 
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trent32la

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I strongly disagree with you there dj, if you have confidence in your postflop game, you're trying to limit your action and outplay your opponents easier, less opponents= easier decisions, remember when open limping you have zero postflop pot control making bluffing near-impossible, you force yourself into playing multi-way pots and not being able to apply ranges because your opponents are limping behind a very wide range, and you can't win the pot preflop. Open limping should be done in very, very few spots of which you have specific reads in. These days its pretty simple.
2.5x open from MP, get 1-2 callers, cbet whether you hit or not and get your opponents to fold around half the time, sometimes more if you get HU on the flop.
limp from MP, get raised and put in a tougher OOP spot or have 3-4 players limp behind and force yourself to play fit-or-fold and making guesstimates on what types if hands your opponent has. This is just my experience playing $1.10-$11 MTTs
Even if you have a small pair, why give yourself only one way to win the pot and not build a pot for the cases you do flop a set?
 
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Zorba

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I strongly disagree with you there dj, if you have confidence in your post flop game, you're trying to limit your action and outplay your opponents easier, less opponents= easier decisions, remember when open limping you have zero post flop pot control making bluffing near-impossible, you force yourself into playing multi-way pots and not being able to apply ranges because your opponents are limping behind a very wide range, and you can't win the pot pre flop. Open limping should be done in very, very few spots of which you have specific reads in.

I am of the same belief as Trent here, except the strongly part, I respect what your saying dj but Limpers must be punished and are the spawn of Satan.



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benspocket

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well don't know where you are from but to play ob ft u aint in the usa I don't think but before they shut down I use to love ft as far as limping in if I have a decent hand u will pay to limp in but that's just my theory
 
NoWuckingFurries

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Brilliant thread guys, thanks very much, love the differences of opinion.

WiZZiM has given me some really useful advice over the years, seems to understand how my mind works somehow and I found the contribution in this thread useful. It's not unusual for dj to be controversial but I like that, what a boring world it would be if we all thought the same! The betting sizes referred to by trent are also very useful for me, along with a lot of other things that various people here have said. Thanks again.

With regards to grouping all tournaments between $1.10 and $11 together, I'm not so sure that would be a great idea. As WiZZiM implied, you can play differently under $3. The key for me is not to get into bad habits whilst doing so, which is what happened when I started off playing freerolls a few years back.
well don't know where you are from but to play ob ft u aint in the usa I don't think but before they shut down I use to love ft as far as limping in if I have a decent hand u will pay to limp in but that's just my theory
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
The clue to where I come from is in the top right corner of all my posts :)
 
Daniel72

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open limping with small pairs in sng´s is fine in the 10/20 and 15/30 stages
at least some Training videos teach that :)
 
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There are certainly pros and cons to it. And sure raising has the advantages trent is saying. However keep in mind raising also has disadvantages like building a pot for poeple that cannot be bluffed postflop and building a pot for people who cannpt fold. Which is great if we have a value hand sure. But your bluffs will be called often meaning you will have more sticky turn and river decisions. Which is fine if you want to play it that way like mentioned they both have pros and cons but neither are really bad you can still profit from limping into many pots and playing postflop accordingly(im proof of that).

As always theres more than one way to skin a cat.
 
Daniel72

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If you raise with little pairs for setmining in the early stages, and somebody re-raises behind you, then you have a problem impliedoddswise :)
A call would be too expensive in this case.
 
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I don't like to open limp at all even at $1 (although now I want to try Belepheron's AA idea). The problem with open limping low PPs and low suited connectors is that it defines your range. Open for (the same) raise with everything you're going to play - that way the villains will have no idea how strong you are.

You can win right there, you can win if you hit and you can win if you miss if the board/action seems favourable.

If you open limp you can't win right away. It's harder to win post flop if you miss, or win the max if you hit because you've defined your hand.
 
Kuphaldt

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Yeah, you can often see who the better players are over the first few hands just by how loose they are.

I agree. I personally play tight as well at the start and then towards the end I play more loose due to the blinds getting very big and antes being involved. The downside to playing tight at the start though is you don't get many premiums in the first 30 hands of the turbos and you might not even get action when you do play your premiums. If you get involved in pots early on you can build a stack if you hit a few big hands. I mainly open limp small pairs and try to flop a set and get the money in so I have a big stack for later on in the tourney. Either strategy works you really just need to find out what works best for you and not go to crazy in multi-way pots.
 
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