Online vs. Live

It seems impossible for me to win big online. Always when I am deep stacked and antes are high my chips seem to disnegrate in air. My personal belief is that I can not read the opponents.

i think this is in the wrong section. i dont think it matters alot, if your a good poker player you should win live and online. just keep working on your game. find a place in your home that you wont be bothered

It's now in the right section.

Online is certainly different than live in many aspects but there are still things you can pick up on with sizing and how tight or loose a player is playing.

Also a hud becomes very important online because the things that will set in your mind about a player at the table live is much easier to remember than similar things linked to a screenname online. online poker is also significantly more difficult when comparing the same buyins.

Thanks for the insight bluff maybe you can suggest an easy free HUD program?

Both hem2 and pt4 have a 30 trail version you can try out, so if you run one for 30 days and then the other for 30 days it gives you two months to try it out and get a feel for it and see which you prefer if you were looking to make the purchase.

If you do look to purchase it would be great for the forum if you used their links:
Poker Tracker http://www.pokertracker.com/?a_aid=cardschat
Holdem Manager https://www.cardschat.com/sites/hem.php

There is a free hud/tracker call fpdb, although I havn't used it but have heard it takes some configuring and might not work for everything If I recall....but certainly an option.

With hem2 and pt4 they both have support threads on cardschat so its often quick to get assistance as well and being a pt4 user having trailed them both I found pt4 was less resource heavy and much easier to get used to.

Good luck in your trailing them, there are some great resource threads and articles around the forum on some typical hud stats and such as well.

nice links, thanks bluff

Also check hm cloud... its still beta but its free...
But i dont think hud will help you too much on winning online tournament....
Which buyins you play?
Micros are very hard to win if you play tag/abc poker... most of time you run into fishes that call your AA shove just to see them calling with 89 and making a str8...

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Yes magigcus I finally think someone understands what I mean. Usually I am pretty good at s-n-g 1 table I almost always top top 3. build a nice little pot and decide to play a mtt. And the situation u described such as in one case. Me being deepstacked gets raised with AQ suited 3x the pot and I cal. To look I can afford and the other player had an effective stack so I was concentrating he would shove if he hits or not. Flop gives me nuts flush with a 729. Opponent goes all in, Naturally I call calculating best he can have is a smaller flush he flips his cards and sgows 72. The worse hand to even thinking of playing and sucks out a full house on me. After such bad beats I usually end up losing the rtest of my chips due to dissappointment or because I hardly have any with 30K BB. The other thing is with a HUD that it may actually throw my game off. You know confuse me. Or really just distract my normal playing

I almost forgot to answer the ?. I usually play at pokerstars. Mostly micro and sometimes 11 dollar entries. Less off rebuy games because people play sick there shove all in rebuy like a mouse in a wheel.

During the middle phase you can start to be aggressive because a lot of fish were already eliminated.You can try to be aggressive and re steal with even marginal hand like 77+AJo+KQ if not many player will try to steal the blind from you.

maik357 said:

Yes magigcus I finally think someone understands what I mean. Usually I am pretty good at s-n-g 1 table I almost always top top 3. build a nice little pot and decide to play a mtt. And the situation u described such as in one case. Me being deepstacked gets raised with AQ suited 3x the pot and I cal. To look I can afford and the other player had an effective stack so I was concentrating he would shove if he hits or not. Flop gives me nuts flush with a 729. Opponent goes all in, Naturally I call calculating best he can have is a smaller flush he flips his cards and sgows 72. The worse hand to even thinking of playing and sucks out a full house on me. After such bad beats I usually end up losing the rtest of my chips due to dissappointment or because I hardly have any with 30K BB. The other thing is with a HUD that it may actually throw my game off. You know confuse me. Or really just distract my normal playing

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I know exactly how u feel... micro mtt is very hard to win... huge field with many maniacs,donks,fishes u name it...
Also mtt is high variance game... so you can lose 100 to win one... sometimes,my advice for you is to stop playing micro mtt untill you have br for lets say 3.30$ or more... just my opinio,its your money...

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The amount of volume you have to play to reach some sort of semblance of a reasonable approximation of your ROI in tournament poker is pretty damn high.

That being said, AND BASED ON YOUR POSTS, I would GUESS you play too tightly and simply are playing too much ABC poker.

The days of simply folding your way into the final table are pretty much over....people have HUDs and simply will not pay off your KK when they get three bet by you and hold AJ.....they just muck.

@ Razz I agree that I may be a little tightt, but ABC is way off. Don´t forget topic Online vs. Live. My live game I have no problem. It is the online fish moves or donks that are hard to adjust to.
Thanks anyway for the insight

If you increase your reading skill try not to play many MTT`s at once.
Play only 2 is my recommendation. Maybe try to take some notes on any of them (I have tried that before I started using HM2 and it works a lot). You can take notes of their cards when shove, fold to 3bet, bluffing or not etc. It can help you a lot in crucial decisions.

I have the same problem. I'm way stronger in my live game. It's one reason I'm trying to play more online because I realized I rely so heavily on my live reads. I think if there's a way to work through it and really become good at betting patterns it will help with the live game. While the trackers are great, you're never going to get anything out of them for your live game.

online play poker and live play poker is not even close to similar.online poker,or poker softver detect many thing.. how much you Agresive, how do you have the chip on the table..and I think how much money you have on acount( how many u deposit). live poker none of it, and knowledge comes first.
* I usually deposit 20 dollars on online poker and I know my place when I play tournaments, prizes up to $ 20, not more.. in 90 percent of cases ..
It is my humble opinion

Online, more tables and more action!

Live and online are definitely different animals and it has taken me over 5 years to get to a point where I don't feel I am throwing money away online despite being up a ton live.

The biggest difference between micro stakes online and normal live play is that players are way more likely to be willing to play very loose for all their chips. Live that is fairly rare, online it is fairly common at the micro stakes. If you play a very TAG style online you will find your opportunities to push at pots with premium hands is actually a lot more profitable than live because of the loose action you will pick up.

Also, people tend online aren't always paying very close attention to what is going on at the table, some because they are multi-tabling, some because they aren't very good at poker and others because they have the TV on in the background etc. So making notes on your opponents helps a lot and will give you an edge over guys who are not doing it.

revskip said:

Live and online are definitely different animals and it has taken me over 5 years to get to a point where I don't feel I am throwing money away online despite being up a ton live.

The biggest difference between micro stakes online and normal live play is that players are way more likely to be willing to play very loose for all their chips. Live that is fairly rare, online it is fairly common at the micro stakes. If you play a very TAG style online you will find your opportunities to push at pots with premium hands is actually a lot more profitable than live because of the loose action you will pick up.

Also, people tend online aren't always paying very close attention to what is going on at the table, some because they are multi-tabling, some because they aren't very good at poker and others because they have the TV on in the background etc. So making notes on your opponents helps a lot and will give you an edge over guys who are not doing it.

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I think you are very astute in your analysis on what items prevent people from paying attention online. I, myself, usually multi-table & I feel that 3 tables I don't miss that much to be a negative, but 4 or more tables & I miss too much.

I would definitely recommend keeping notes on personnel. I play on Bovada which notes R almost useless, because once they or U leave table the notes are erased. I also play on Carbon & I keep a plethora of notes on people.

Keeping notes on a person is an immeasurable advantage I think that a cornucopia of people do NOT take advantage of. I can't tell U how many times I won a pot based on the notes I had. I've called this player down a multiple amount of times with king high & it's been good.

maik357 said:

It seems impossible for me to win big online. Always when I am deep stacked and antes are high my chips seem to disnegrate in air. My personal belief is that I can not read the opponents.

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I would strongly recommend keeping notes on people. That will definitely help you take the appropriate steps to win pots against players.

Also I understand that winning big is a huge adrenaline rush, but don't try for the home run every time. You can get 4 singles & that equals a home run. Small wins do add up to a big win collectively.

Everybodylovesdeuces said:

I have the same problem. I'm way stronger in my live game. It's one reason I'm trying to play more online because I realized I rely so heavily on my live reads. I think if there's a way to work through it and really become good at betting patterns it will help with the live game. While the trackers are great, you're never going to get anything out of them for your live game.

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I feel in live games egos really dictate the amounts U win/lose. I also truly believe that U will have bigger wins/losses live vs. online play.

In live play people hate to be bluffed & that is where their ego gets them into trouble. They don't want someone to show them up at the table & be embarrassed. Their ego will tell them "I know I'm beat, but I don't want to be bluffed by this guy & have people at the table laugh/smirk at me, so I'll call". In online poker a huge percentage of people don't know each other so they don't have a problem of being bluffed. If I got bluffed definitely take a note of it though to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Position and pot odds

maik357 said:

It seems impossible for me to win big online. Always when I am deep stacked and antes are high my chips seem to disnegrate in air. My personal belief is that I can not read the opponents.

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The game has changed over the twenty years I have been playing. Live or online it has become a game of position and pot odds. I love the time of the MTT's that you are describing live or online because it's when professionals go from the middle of the pack to the final table and it's not because they are reading people, at least I am not. . My brain goes into overdrive and it's math and position that I am thinking about. I could care less who i am playing. The pros you have seen and thought are awesome at reading people are actually doing the paperwork in their heads. The smarter they are the greater the illusion.. Read about position and pot odds and you will get past the problem... I play four screens at a time online, my mom could be seated next to me and I wouldn't even notice .. Good luck to you...