Was this an ok shove?

blueskies

blueskies

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This is a carbon double or nothing SNG.

There are 7 people left (5 cash). I am down to about 1000 chips, sixth on the table. Blinds are 100/200 and antes are 15. I am on SB with 10 2 off suit. If I fold, that leaves me with 900 chips. The fifth place guy has about 1300 chips, not that much more than me.

BB has 1800 chips and has been a tight player. I hadn't played a hand in about 2 rotations as I had been getting garbage so a shove should represent a pretty strong hand. I felt like I could do enough damage to his stack, and his stack size was safe enough that he would fold most hands.

Everyone folds to me. I shove it. He thought for a few sec and called with KJ. And I got caught.

Did I make the right decision?
 
straytfrush

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I would make that decision. There are very few hands he can call with, losing would cripple his stack. If the top 5 get paid equally and there are two people with fairly small stacks at the table its not in his interest to risk anything unless he has some decent cards.
 
LennyPigeon

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let's put it this way: if i was in his position i would have folded. then again i am a very tight DON player. i don't like to push until i am in real trouble, or if i have good information on the BB. What was the stake out of interest? some players wont watch so closely and this guy might not have picked up on the fact you had not played a hand for a while..
 
blueskies

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It's just the $1 + 8c level. $2 payout. But most guys at this level still play conservatively. Maybe you are right and he wasn't watching.

I am probably down 4-5 buyins + the rake playing these DONs. I keep telling myself to stick to cash where I am winning pretty easily but there's this dumb side of me that wants to be profitable at these DONs so I keep going back.

The only shove I've won where I was behind going in was AK vs. 44. On the other hand I've lost 4 or 5 shoves where I was ahead going in. So I keep going back for punishment. Maybe I should try to be more conservative and not shove until I am down to 2 or 3 blinds because once blinds get to 400 or 500, everyone without the big stacks is pretty much in the same boat. Maybe I get lucky and the other bubble guys get unlucky.
 
bhood1776

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What are you Doyle Brunson or something? lol J/k

Regaurdless of my image I just can't bring myself to shove any two cards. Now I might shove pretty light sometimes, but 10 high I just can't do it, but that's just me.
 
fletchdad

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I believe your thought process was ok here. Its a coin toss, but with a tight BB its a good shove. You did have a few more hands to choose a better shove, as T2 is pretty crappy, although in the case you are talking about the cards are not so important. When were the blinds going up? If you could have waited and remained at the same blind level, that would be worth considering, but wrong your push was not IMO.
 
Kountess

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You did what you had to do just didn't get lucky!
 
TheOne2Watch

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Are you serious...no you didnt make the right decision. The most you should have done was raise to 500 and see where he is at. If he re-pops you then you know you are beat and have to fold and hope to double up in the 6 hands. I have played many of these double-up tournaments and have won with only 200-300 chips left. Double-up tournaments that late are about patience. By pushing all-in pre-flop you are putting your tournament on the line, by raising and getting re-popped you can still fold and have a chance to double up later. Just my opinion though
 
atlantafalcons0

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How about just fold?
 
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Shove is fine. Tight BB with 1800 is folding almost always.

If you have SNG wiz program you can analyze these decisions almost exactly through ICM. If you give me the HH I would be more than happy to do that.
 
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I am not a player that shoves with any 2 cards at anytime unless the blinds are taking over 50 percent of my stack. I say be a little more patient and wait another round or until you at least get a face card or an ace. But everyone plays different so I could understand the push there.
 
Poker Orifice

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TheOne2Watch said:
Are you serious...no you didnt make the right decision. The most you should have done was raise to 500 and see where he is at. If he re-pops you then you know you are beat and have to fold and hope to double up in the 6 hands. I have played many of these double-up tournaments and have won with only 200-300 chips left. Double-up tournaments that late are about patience. By pushing all-in pre-flop you are putting your tournament on the line, by raising and getting re-popped you can still fold and have a chance to double up later. Just my opinion though
Click to expand...

THis is terrible advice for playing a DoN (imo).

As far as the shove goes.. BvB.. a few things to consider:
a) is villain ICM knowledgeable?
b) (if he is) does villain believe you are ICM knowledgable?

If villain is a decent player they should be calling really tight here in this spot in a DoN (there's no need for them to risk 3/5 their stack, regardless of pot odds in this spot..cuz it's a DoN & there are other SS's on the table.... why call & put yourself in a position to become the shortstack when there's absolutely no need to?).
Therefore (if villain has half a clue) it's an easy shove (& typically would be an easy shove... but am including this stuff partly because it's a super micro buyin & you'll run into all kinds/types of players, many who have no clue).
Even if villain knows you're shoving atc's here (& should be), he should never be calling with KJo. (not sure what they'd need to call with, but am sure someone can run it to find out for ya).
Oh... hey.. there you go (above) MaxiRodriguez said they'd run it for ya.
Now... if we have a read on villain being a clueless random, I'd be more on the side of folding here.

Raise/folding would be ridiculously bad obviously (I hope I don't have to say why.....):(
 
Poker Orifice

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rllngn said:
I am not a player that shoves with any 2 cards at anytime unless the blinds are taking over 50 percent of my stack. I say be a little more patient and wait another round or until you at least get a face card or an ace. But everyone plays different so I could understand the push there.
Click to expand...

When blinds = 50% of your stack? You'd have what.. 3bb's and would be giving the BB 2.5to1 on a call & if they've got any chips at all they could be (would be) calling all day long. Now you're only chance of winning is if your hand actually wins (because you'd have zero fold equity).
 
blueskies

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Busted out in 6th place in my latest fail. I am cutting into my smallball profits with these DON airballs. Yet I can't stop myself from trying...

Had 900 left with blinds at 150/300 as the short stacker. I was on BB with A7. All fold to sb (big stack) who limps. I shove my remaining 600 in there. He calls, flips over J2 which is about as good as I could hope for.

The lousy 2 hits on the turn. Dead.

Not really a huge fav going in, but I would like to win one of these for once. Had junk all game. Best hand was 10 10 UTG early on, and had KJ one time.

Managed to steal 3 pots with bluffs, but didn't win one decent size one.
 
rssurfer54

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definitely shove. and btw, if you hadnt played a hand in 2 rounds, he made a very loose call.
 
greenokom

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Of course you've made the right decision. who didn't made the right decision is BB. In the 2 rotations you hadn't played, you actually build your image- a tight image. The BB did'nt hold a strong enough hand to call your tight image play.
 
Rldetheflop

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Poker Orifice said:
THis is terrible advice for playing a DoN (imo).

As far as the shove goes.. BvB.. a few things to consider:
a) is villain ICM knowledgeable?
b) (if he is) does villain believe you are ICM knowledgable?

If villain is a decent player they should be calling really tight here in this spot in a DoN (there's no need for them to risk 3/5 their stack, regardless of pot odds in this spot..cuz it's a DoN & there are other SS's on the table.... why call & put yourself in a position to become the shortstack when there's absolutely no need to?).
Therefore (if villain has half a clue) it's an easy shove (& typically would be an easy shove... but am including this stuff partly because it's a super micro buyin & you'll run into all kinds/types of players, many who have no clue).
Even if villain knows you're shoving atc's here (& should be), he should never be calling with KJo. (not sure what they'd need to call with, but am sure someone can run it to find out for ya).
Oh... hey.. there you go (above) MaxiRodriguez said they'd run it for ya.
Now... if we have a read on villain being a clueless random, I'd be more on the side of folding here.

Raise/folding would be ridiculously bad obviously (I hope I don't have to say why.....):(
Click to expand...


Thx now I dont have to type it. :)
 
CheeseConey

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I think the shove was OK. I probably would have made the same decision. I think you assessed the situation correctly, that your opponent shouldn't risk his good chip position to call, but unfortunately he did. Even after he called you still had 2 live cards, so you weren't too bad off.
 
OakRaider

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The only problem with that shove is that u were SB and if u folded u could have waited for a better hand without putting any money in for a few hands, but I would have probably pushed the same way considering the other player was playing tight. You made a good move at a bad time.
 
kidkvno1

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Poker Orifice said:
THis is terrible advice for playing a DoN (imo).

As far as the shove goes.. BvB.. a few things to consider:
a) is villain ICM knowledgeable?
b) (if he is) does villain believe you are ICM knowledgable?

If villain is a decent player they should be calling really tight here in this spot in a DoN (there's no need for them to risk 3/5 their stack, regardless of pot odds in this spot..cuz it's a DoN & there are other SS's on the table.... why call & put yourself in a position to become the shortstack when there's absolutely no need to?).
Therefore (if villain has half a clue) it's an easy shove (& typically would be an easy shove... but am including this stuff partly because it's a super micro buyin & you'll run into all kinds/types of players, many who have no clue).
Even if villain knows you're shoving atc's here (& should be), he should never be calling with KJo. (not sure what they'd need to call with, but am sure someone can run it to find out for ya).
Oh... hey.. there you go (above) MaxiRodriguez said they'd run it for ya.
Now... if we have a read on villain being a clueless random, I'd be more on the side of folding here.

Raise/folding would be ridiculously bad obviously (I hope I don't have to say why.....):(
Click to expand...
i was thinking the same thing..
Just based on the blinds alone...

Rldetheflop said:
Thx now I dont have to type it. :)
Click to expand...
+1
 
C

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That was a bad time to push all in. You could have at least waited to get a face card to push all in or waited for a round of betting to go by until you post your next blind. Who knows, 2 players might be knocked out by then. DONS you need to play really tight and strong hands to make them profitable. You might throw in the occasional preflop bluff with like A4 to secure a spot in the money. But you shouldnt bluff too much in DONS. It gives players the chance to make stupid calls.
 
blueskies

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My luck is really crap.

I shove with KQ, get called by KJ. (Down to 3.5 blinds with antes, had to do it) The board pairs twice and ends up being a split. Had I won this, as I should have, I would have doubled up and wouldn't need to shove with JJ the next hand.

The blinds... one had AJ one had KK. Had one out.

I was done. Failed to cash again.

Never get to win one where I was behind going in (except for AK vs. 44 one time), and I've lost or tied hands I should have won no less than 7 or 8 times at critical points. Impossible to profit at these DONs with luck like that.
 
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