Never getting away?

I had A5 off in BB, 3x raised to me (60) by the button(everyone is pretty much 1500, 5th hand of MTT)

I call
flop is 2d, Qc, 4d;
goes check, check
turn is Qs
goes check, check
river is 3h
I bet 120
Villain raises to 300
I re-raise to 620
Villain shoves
I call.

villain shows pocket 4s..
is this just a ridiculously unlucky spot to be in when he had slowplayed so "well". (Am i wrong to think his play was just horrible?almost never getting paid off the way he was..)

I fold pre, A5o is just a trouble hand this early.

As for the river, just call the raise. Hes repping nothing here because you would expect a Q to have bet by now, you're obviously behind a set, so raising will accomplish nothing.

Technically his play was good, because he didnt bet until you had something worth calling with. If im him I bet all three streets though.

Your play was worse than his, easily avoidable.

youregoodmate said:

I fold pre, A5o is just a trouble hand this early.

As for the river, just call the raise. Hes repping nothing here because you would expect a Q to have bet by now, you're obviously behind a set, so raising will accomplish nothing.

Technically his play was good, because he didnt bet until you had something worth calling with. If im him I bet all three streets though.

Your play was worse than his, easily avoidable.

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By just flatting the raise, aren't i losing alot of value though? So many times i would be facing just a Qx slow play, or a passive mid pocket who doesn't believe i would have made anything from the river that would make sense for him to not get it in. Also Ax hero shoves thinking im just being overly aggressive...

As I said, a Queen would have bet by now. A mid pocket will not raise the river, that would be pointless, he would only get called by bet and would fold out worse.

Your tournament life is more important than a tiny bit of value. Just flat the raise, his raise is so polarised. Its either a FH or a bluff, so no point in re-raising.

lukyl said:

By just flatting the raise, aren't i losing alot of value though? So many times i would be facing just a Qx slow play, or a passive mid pocket who doesn't believe i would have made anything from the river that would make sense for him to not get it in. Also Ax hero shoves thinking im just being overly aggressive...

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This is where you need to think what his range is that you beat, and what his range is that you lose to.

Anything with a Q, like KQ, AQ, bets the flop and turn to extract value. So very doubtful he has a Q.
What does he 3 bet you with on the river which you are beating? I just can't see anything other than AQ, and surely AQ flats your raise as there are straight and house draws there for things like 44, 22, 33, which would easily be in your range when you flat a 3x bet in the BB.

It's one of those hands where you only get called by something beating you. But that doesnt mean you shouldnt be range merging....... Sometimes.

Also dont post results.

Once the hand went down I would probably have played it the same way as you did, BUT I wouldn't have called a raise with A5off especially with a blind of 20tc, let him take the measly amount.

I fold that hand early in MTT

Do you want to play in a HU pot with a raggy ace with deep effective stacks OUT OF POSITION?

Just give me one good reason why yu wanna do that?

lukyl said:

I had A5 off in BB, 3x raised to me (60) by the button(everyone is pretty much 1500, 5th hand of MTT)

I call
flop is 2d, Qc, 4d;
goes check, check
turn is Qs
goes check, check
river is 3h
I bet 120
Villain raises to 300
I re-raise to 620
Villain shoves
I call.

villain shows pocket 4s..
is this just a ridiculously unlucky spot to be in when he had slowplayed so "well". (Am i wrong to think his play was just horrible?almost never getting paid off the way he was..)

Click to expand...

A2345Razz said:

Do you want to play in a HU pot with a raggy ace with deep effective stacks OUT OF POSITION?

Just give me one good reason why yu wanna do that?

Click to expand...

Umm.. cuz we're deep & likely ahead of villain's range
cuz we're grooming villain for future hands when we tilt-crush-stack him when he's 'thinkin' we're playing some B.S. raggy Ace again.... but really we've just flatted this time w KK.
Then there's always the possibility of 'he felt like it'?

As far as the hand goes... "Am i wrong to think his play was just horrible? almost never getting paid off the way he has.. "
Yup.

I just want to offer my $0.02

Your first huge mistake (in my very humble opinion) was playing A-5 OOP early in an MTT.

All of this could have been avoided if you didn't call that small raise with A-rag. It is my opinion that you should not be playing garbage hands early in an MTT, especially OOP.

Throw that A-rag in the muck next time. How much would it have cost to fold it? 20 chips? Instead, you shipped a whole bunch of chips to someone else with A-rag.

It is irrelevant whether villain played horrible here - you shipped a giant pot straight to him. You should be asking yourself - "How could I have played that hand better?"

Don't play garbage OOP is the answer to this question. And also, were you totally oblivious of the fact that a boat is possible? Did you even consider it? I bet you didn't, you probably snap called. Take your time making decisions. Throw the A-5 in the muck next time.

I mean no disrespect. But this has got to be one of the biggest chip leaks in poker, playing too many hands. "Meh, it's only 40 more chips, I want to protect my BB", or "I might hit the flop and get paid" A-5 is a trouble hand.

Tighten up.

lukyl said:

is this just a ridiculously unlucky spot to be in when he had slowplayed so "well". (Am i wrong to think his play was just horrible?almost never getting paid off the way he was..)

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"well" in quotations? If he would have bet the flop, would you have called(I sure hope your answer is no)?

He did what many poker players would do - waited for his opponents to catch up, so he can crack them (which is exactly what he did to you). Mission accomplished. He won a big pot.

Ya, being deep or marginally ahead of a pretend range you pretend to have constructed based on little to no info.....arent good reasons to wanna play in a HU pot OOP.

That is where you went wrong.
Stop worrying about being ahead of someone's range so much, and start worrying about position a lot more...also read some poker books/posts which will help you develop a notion of what sorts of hands play well deep as opposed to shallow/Push fold.
Cliffs:
Position is so important. Being a teeny bit ahead of a range is very unimportant here.

Poker Orifice said:

Umm.. cuz we're deep & likely ahead of villain's range
cuz we're grooming villain for future hands when we tilt-crush-stack him when he's 'thinkin' we're playing some B.S. raggy Ace again.... but really we've just flatted this time w KK.
Then there's always the possibility of 'he felt like it'?

As far as the hand goes... "Am i wrong to think his play was just horrible? almost never getting paid off the way he has.. "
Yup.

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