Need Some Micro SNG help

TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

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Welcome David!

Ok, from what I've seen you need to start with three things. You seem to have a decent handle on hand selection, but you need to refine the positions you are playing thm from.

Secondly you need some work on your betsizing.

Third, you need some refienemnt on reading the board and how it correlates to your opponents betting/actions.

Where do you want to start?
 
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kichukdave

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lets start at what you think will help most
 
TheKAAHK

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Ok. let's go with bet sizing.

Minraises and minbets are out. Why? first of all you are offering your opponents tremendous odds to call with any overcards and any draws. It also makes you look terribly weak (wether you are or not) and thus leads to your opposition calling wide (as in a wide range).

Here's an example:

You are on the button with AQ (suits don't matter). The blinds are 25/50 and you raise to 100. The guy on the BB has 910. It is only costing him another 50 to call so he does. The board comes J Q 5. Great flop. The pot is now 225 and you bet 100 again. You are now giving your opponent 3 to 1 odds to chase that straight. let's say now the turn is a 2. You still have the best hand, but you again bet 100. Your opponent only has to call another 100 into a pot of 425 to see that river card. Not only does he have the right odds to call, but he is porbably also thinking at this time that you have nothing and might call because of that (if he does not know or think about odds). An 8 comes on the river, making the board J Q 5 2 8. Still looks good for your AQ, but your opponent has now made the straight. See what I'm getting at?

If you had bet, say 200 on the flop and followed that up by another 2/3-3/4 sized bet on the turn, your opponent would not have called to see the river, and you would have still gained that additional few hundred chips form his chasing.

Questions?
 
TheKAAHK

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Basically you want to be betting enough to make some profit on the pot, enough to dissuade potential draws, but not too much to scare off somebody calling with a second pair type hand.

Ah, cj is here, he can elaborate on these things more.
 
cjatud2012

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Labman got you started out with one of your most important tools. Here is another one: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-hand-analysis-51/ <-- this is where you can ask questions about tough spots where you don't know the answer, or you just wanna explore different situations and further understand some fundamental concepts.

Apart from that... It's going to be really hard to give you any advice, because you haven't really asked a specific question, lol. I suggest you pick a topic you're unsure of and we'll start from there.
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

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Labman got you started out with one of your most important tools. Here is another one: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-hand-analysis-51/ <-- this is where you can ask questions about tough spots where you don't know the answer, or you just wanna explore different situations and further understand some fundamental concepts.

Apart from that... It's going to be really hard to give you any advice, because you haven't really asked a specific question, lol. I suggest you pick a topic you're unsure of and we'll start from there.

David here is a new online acquaitenece of mine through a mutual friend. He play's micro tourneys, and while he does ok, he has some fundamental flaws he is still not really aware of.

(Not trying to sound condacending here, just being honest about what I've observed)

I've watched his play in MTT and SNG and the three things I've outlined are what he's needing help with most.

Basically he dosn't yet know what he needs advice on. He plays decently and has the basics down, but like alot of us when we were still beginning/non-serious recreational players (read: fish(sorry)) he does not yet see the seriousness of his leaks.

I figure that by some of us giving general tidbits of advice ITT, it will spur some deeper thinking about some specific topics that we can firther expand on.
 
ben_rhyno

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Maybe throw in a bit of game selection aswell once you learn the basics
 
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kichukdave

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ok, next lesson please!

Ok. let's go with bet sizing.

Minraises and minbets are out. Why? first of all you are offering your opponents tremendous odds to call with any overcards and any draws. It also makes you look terribly weak (wether you are or not) and thus leads to your opposition calling wide (as in a wide range).

Here's an example:

You are on the button with AQ (suits don't matter). The blinds are 25/50 and you raise to 100. The guy on the BB has 910. It is only costing him another 50 to call so he does. The board comes J Q 5. Great flop. The pot is now 225 and you bet 100 again. You are now giving your opponent 3 to 1 odds to chase that straight. let's say now the turn is a 2. You still have the best hand, but you again bet 100. Your opponent only has to call another 100 into a pot of 425 to see that river card. Not only does he have the right odds to call, but he is porbably also thinking at this time that you have nothing and might call because of that (if he does not know or think about odds). An 8 comes on the river, making the board J Q 5 2 8. Still looks good for your AQ, but your opponent has now made the straight. See what I'm getting at?

If you had bet, say 200 on the flop and followed that up by another 2/3-3/4 sized bet on the turn, your opponent would not have called to see the river, and you would have still gained that additional few hundred chips form his chasing.

Questions?
 
joe steady

joe steady

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Understand that theKAAHK actually gave you 2 lessons - number 1 is not minbetting unless you have a damn good reason, and number 2 is know your pot odds, so if you're the guy in the above situation, you can recognize that you're getting great odds to call with 9 10.
Here's a link to check out:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/start_pot_odds.html
 
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I'll add a few basics here. Assuming you're playing single table tournaments vs multi-table of course. On a side note, while I do take stabs at major multi table tourneys, I tend to stick to singles as there's less variance and the games don't last for hours.

In all honestly, the game doesn't really start until the blinds hit 100. That's why you'll read most people playing very tight until then. You have no idea how easy it is to make up chips once you hit this level. And it tends to get rid of the very loose players. Remember to play from late position and play with strength. No limping, no min raises. Start with 3xBB, then reduce it down to 2.5 BB once the blinds hit 150 or so. The more people you're up against in a hand, the harder it is to win.

The only hands I play early in a tourney are high pocket pairs, A,10+ and even then a lot of time I need to be at least mid position or later. If I'm CO or the button, then I'll also add suited connectors to my range.

That said, trying to limp in with a low pocket pair is fine, just be ready to dump them if you don't get the 3 of kind. Also don't bluff!!! Save bluffing until you get more experience. And even then it needs to be saved until later in the game.

Once you get further in, then open your range up.

Ok...this was a bit of rambling...but I think it'll get you going.
 
TheKAAHK

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Understand that theKAAHK actually gave you 2 lessons - number 1 is not minbetting unless you have a damn good reason, and number 2 is know your pot odds, so if you're the guy in the above situation, you can recognize that you're getting great odds to call with 9 10.
Here's a link to check out:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/start_pot_odds.html

Good link.

Yeah I kinda mixed a bit of what and why. What not to do (minbetting) and why not to do it. Of course this was just a basic outline, and there are many more compelling reasons of why and when if you get a little deeper into the subject, but we'll get into that a bit later...
 
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teebee

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im micro sngs i try to play tight and leave it to others to go out early in tournament with marginal hands. play suited connects every once in a while and just play your game.
 
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kichukdave

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Thanks For that ill try that style
I'll add a few basics here. Assuming you're playing single table tournaments vs multi-table of course. On a side note, while I do take stabs at major multi table tourneys, I tend to stick to singles as there's less variance and the games don't last for hours.

In all honestly, the game doesn't really start until the blinds hit 100. That's why you'll read most people playing very tight until then. You have no idea how easy it is to make up chips once you hit this level. And it tends to get rid of the very loose players. Remember to play from late position and play with strength. No limping, no min raises. Start with 3xBB, then reduce it down to 2.5 BB once the blinds hit 150 or so. The more people you're up against in a hand, the harder it is to win.

The only hands I play early in a tourney are high pocket pairs, A,10+ and even then a lot of time I need to be at least mid position or later. If I'm CO or the button, then I'll also add suited connectors to my range.

That said, trying to limp in with a low pocket pair is fine, just be ready to dump them if you don't get the 3 of kind. Also don't bluff!!! Save bluffing until you get more experience. And even then it needs to be saved until later in the game.

Once you get further in, then open your range up.

Ok...this was a bit of rambling...but I think it'll get you going.
 
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Also don't bluff!!! Save bluffing until you get more experience. And even then it needs to be saved until later in the game.

This has to be the best advice anyone can give you without you asking any direct questions. This is especially true when it comes to STT.

Post in the hand analysis when you want to know why things did not work out for you, or when you had tough decisions that you want others advice on.

GL and keep reading. There is a lot to be learned in the CC world :)
 
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