Multi table and stat tracking Question.

I have followed some winning MTT and STT players here, and read in some posts that some do not use HUDs. But they also spoke of table selection. So I am assuming if you dont use a HUD you still use HEM or PT3 to collects game and player statistics (how else can you select a table if you have no info?) as well as keeping records of you play.

And do how many tables do you play at the same time without a HUD, and how do you base your decisions if you are multi tabling? I dont use a HUD and am playing only 2-3 tables but find it hard often to make informed decisions when I dont really know anything but my position and my cards i.e. has a player been stealing, playing lots of pots etc.

I can't speak for my self, as I use a HUD, but what I've seen others do is use the site lobby to see the stats of the table. Ie average stack size, average pot size, and % of players that see the flop. From there they will find a table that they want to play at (usually higher dollar pots and more people seeing the flop) and they will watch the table for a round or two. If it's a table that they like they find a good spot. Tighter players on their left and looser players with bigger stacks on their right.

To keep track of their winning/losses some people use just a simple excel spread sheet and post their info in there manually. They won't have as detailed record as they would if they were using some tracking software but it may fit their needs.

ericgarner118 said:

I can't speak for my self, as I use a HUD, but what I've seen others do is use the site lobby to see the stats of the table. Ie average stack size, average pot size, and % of players that see the flop. From there they will find a table that they want to play at (usually higher dollar pots and more people seeing the flop) and they will watch the table for a round or two. If it's a table that they like they find a good spot. Tighter players on their left and looser players with bigger stacks on their right.

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Yea, thats good for cash, but you dont have this option in STT and MTT games, which is what I mean here, which is why its posted in "Tournament poker". But thanks for the bump

fletchdad said:

I have followed some winning MTT and STT players here, and read in some posts that some do not use HUDs.A few top SNG regs don't use HUD's either, Abarone68 is one that comes to mind. A lot of our STT decisions are just a default play that we fall back on. So i'd say probably 95% of the time i don't even look to my HUD for anything, Sometimes i just don't have enough hands on a player to use it, sometimes the play is just clear cut, or it's a default set of ranges i fall back onto so i can make a decision which is going to work the majority of the time. But they also spoke of table selection. So I am assuming if you dont use a HUD you still use HEM or PT3 to collects game and player statistics (how else can you select a table if you have no info?) as well as keeping records of you play. SHarkscope is a huge help here. You probably need to purchase a subscription to take advantage of the advanced filters, but it's definintely worth while. Their stats, graphs and ROI can be probably the best things to go by when you're table selecting. Sometimes you just run a general search of a player and it shows that they are 30% ROI over thousands of gmaes, But look closer, and refine those searches to the games you are playing, I don't know how many times i'll see a MT SNG player have a really nice looking graph, but is only a breakeven player at the 9 man tables. Also, you can get the distribution of sharkscope which helps a TON for 9 man tables, and can help you table select away from known good regs. Unlike PTR, sharkscope is actually good for the community. It helps the regs table select away from each other, which in turn helps the fish have a good time also, (as the game isn't reg filled) I've never understood why people block their SS accounts for the reasons stated above.

And do how many tables do you play at the same time without a HUDI can play my normal amount, but a few times during the set i get "lost" and turn to my HUD for guideance. SO i'd probably cap it at around 8 tables without a HUD, and i'd need to tile those tables so i could pay attention and get reads., and how do you base your decisions if you are multi tabling?I find a lot of it is just a default play, or set of ranges that i've used time and time again. So sometimes getting a read on a player really doesn't matter, we know it's find to shove AKS with 10 BB on the button against any opponant.As we know it's fine to shove Q9s with 8 BBs from the SB against any opponant. The only times i change it up is when i'm versing a known spazz ( a guy whos shown to be really loose and is playing in a lot of pots, which you can notice without looking at a HUD.) Or a regular, which i can find out using Sharkscope, or just watching their play in genearly, (are they shoving ffrom the SB a lot, are they tight early, etc, again, you can notice this stuff wihtot a HUD) I dont use a HUD and am playing only 2-3 tables but find it hard often to make informed decisions when I dont really know anything but my position and my cards i.e. has a player been stealing, playing lots of pots etc.As i've mentioned above, finding generaly shoving/re-stealing ranges can be really beneficial. In STT especially, we rarely re-steal wider than a certain set of ranges. The Zerosum vids can explain that better than i ever could, i believe i sent you those video's (shhh). So that default set of ranges will work against most unknown players, then after a while playing with the same players you get to see what cards they are showing down and we can adjjust those ranges if for example we see a player stealing a lot from late position.

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All in all, if you play without a HUD, you just need to pay a little more attention when you're not in a hand. It's not a crucial piece of software, and you can definitely be profitable without one. I find the main thing i use it for is tracking my own play and finding leaks using the reports page. So it's definitely worth buying, IF, you plan on playing lots of volume and plan to play higher stakes, otherwise if you're playing for fun/relaxation or whatever, or plan to just play micro stakes. outlaying $100 for any piece of software is wasted money. Don't think i went over a third of what i wanted to with this post, but i'm tired and it's bed for me. At least i bumped the thread again huh? .

WiZZiM said:

All in all, if you play without a HUD, you just need to pay a little more attention when you're not in a hand. It's not a crucial piece of software, and you can definitely be profitable without one. I find the main thing i use it for is tracking my own play and finding leaks using the reports page. So it's definitely worth buying, IF, you plan on playing lots of volume and plan to play higher stakes, otherwise if you're playing for fun/relaxation or whatever, or plan to just play micro stakes. outlaying $100 for any piece of software is wasted money. Don't think i went over a third of what i wanted to with this post, but i'm tired and it's bed for me. At least i bumped the thread again huh? .

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Yes, and thanks as always. Continue tomorrow or whenever if you want, your input is always appreciated.

I trialed HEM and am trialing PT3 but more for the checking my own play you mentioned above, as I dont know enough about the stats to really use them, and get more distracted sometimes with it on. I am using it more to try to gat a handle on it, but play a few sites that are not supported anyway (Yea, I know you hate PKR, but I do OK in the MTTs and STTs there, so its a profitable move) I also play at Victory poker, and do OK there as well. I trialed SnGwiz, but stupidly in my daughters summer vacation time, so used it for maybe 1 hour in all. I didnt even make one chart, so a real waste.

No PTR (pokettableratings). I don't hate PKR, i really like the 'idea' of it. but the tournament structures suck and you can only play 4 tables at once.

I don't use a HUD or PT3/HEM. I don't mass-multitable either though, eight is about my limit at the moment. I've got a spreadsheet for keeping track of results and I use the notes feature in the Full Tilt software but that's about it.

As always, Wiz has said just about everything that needs saying. STTs are such a mechanical game that you don't need super-detailed reads most of the time and so far I've gotten by OK without a HUD or more detailed tracking.

Player notes let me table select, I've got a colour coding system so I can quickly identify players that I want to avoid (or players that I really want to play with) in the tournament lobby.