MTT pocket pair situation

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treespell

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Hey guys, I was in a 10+1 MTT turbo, played this hand and was berated. Was this bad play?

I'm CO with 99 and 12.5k, the blinds are 300-600. Everyone folds around to me I raise it to 1200. The rest fold to BB who has 25k. BB re-raises to 3k, I call.
972 rainbow flop.
BB goes all-in, I call.

BB shows AA and rags come on the turn and river. We trade stacks.

My thought was that BB was defending his blind, since blind steals were happening like crazy. BB claimed I was "retarded to setmine for 30% of my stack". What would you guys do?
 
newbie in training

newbie in training

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Id either shove or fold in turbos most of the time calling is a weakness you should either be raising or folding and to what would I do itd probably be VERY player deoendent I think im leaning torwards fold as youd still have 15 bigs and a better hand to shove with but then again he could have been blind defending as well so like I said player deoendent

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Hey guys, I was in a 10+1 MTT turbo, played this hand and was berated. Was this bad play?

I'm CO with 99 and 12.5k, the blinds are 300-600. Everyone folds around to me I raise it to 1200. The rest fold to BB who has 25k. BB re-raises to 3k, I call.
972 rainbow flop.
BB goes all-in, I call.

BB shows AA and rags come on the turn and river. We trade stacks.

My thought was that BB was defending his blind, since blind steals were happening like crazy. BB claimed I was "retarded to setmine for 30% of my stack". What would you guys do?
On 20bb's & assuming your read.. I'm 4-betting allin here pre.

LOL @ his flop jam (2x pot effective) & then whining about you flatting & investing ~30% pre. What was he hoping would call?
 
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treespell

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Id either shove or fold in turbos most of the time calling is a weakness you should either be raising or folding and to what would I do itd probably be VERY player deoendent I think im leaning torwards fold as youd still have 15 bigs and a better hand to shove with but then again he could have been blind defending as well so like I said player deoendent

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I noticed people going all-in almost every hand at this point in the tournament. Is it really ideal to shove every time?
 
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turtelliusshellius

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Personally, after being three bet in that situation I would evaluate the possible holdings he had and what the optimal play was against his range as well as what his aggression factor was when first to act. If his c-bet percentage was 80%, I would definitely just flat here solely for the fact that if he misses he's still going to open the flop and allow you the opportunity to milk him for more in a bad spot. You said you felt he was blind defending, so you obviously thought you were ahead. A preflop shove is going to get a blind defender out since he has no possibility for a bluff, but a preflop flat with the intent of calling/shoving the flop no matter what comes is a much better move in my mind if you think he's defending light, solely because if he is light and misses he's going to invest more money than if you 4 bet pre against a light hand. So personally, I agree with your move based on your read. Unfortunately this was one of the times he actually had a hand, and you got lucky. That's poker, but I think your play had the best value long term based on your read.
 
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lost2qandisa

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I play low and middle pairs all the time. Sometimes I will call a re-raise. Every pocket pair has a 20% chance to hit. In a turbo, that is good odds to me. Your opponent was tilted because his AA got cracked. It amazes me how many people think AA will win. In reality, if you shove AA preflop every time, it will only win 3 out of 10 times if it goes to a showdown. However, it usually wins more than that because of the fold equity it carries. Many times AA wins because everybody else folded.

I would use his tilt to my advantage. Say, well I guess it was a good play because my stack grew. Let em tilt and take the rest of the stack.
 
newbie in training

newbie in training

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Lol set doesent hit 1 in 5 it hits one in 8.5 and actually rockets are pretty likely to win ehrn your onky gettjng premiums to call....

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midgetfactory

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At least you took the pot, i think you played the hand very well. You wer lucky no doubt but at least you go the pot.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Really dislike flatting here. The only hands I would flat here (assuming players were bad enough to not notice) are like QQ+

Flatting 99 here just doesn't hold much merit and if you hadn't flopped a set and there was over cards I fear you would of folded to any action. Just 4B shove pre; we only have 20bb stack have a BB who's going to be shoving super wide vs our CO open.


Folding pre flop would be terrible fwiw.


I noticed people going all-in almost every hand at this point in the tournament. Is it really ideal to shove every time?


Of course. If everyone is going all in their ranges are going to be super wide; 99 has a ton of equity when we're on a 20BB stack.
 
Akorps

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You could have shoved before the flop with 99 and those stack to BB ratios.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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more important than the specific moves we make, is having a valid, logical reason WHY we make them....(and a plan if our decisions leave us with chips behind)

Can you tell us WHY you flatted his preflop re-raise?

sometimes flatting is the best move if you know your opponent likes to overplay any 2 broadway cards, and he usually CBets any flop...gives you different ways to win and also avoid losing based on your post flop skills. if the flop comes KQJ...easy fold to his Cbet. If the flop comes 257, easy jam on his Cbet....etc.

But yeah, If I think he's just blind defending light I'll 4bet all in...really depends though. I might flat and then jam any flop that doesn't contain an A,K or Q...
 
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rumsey182

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flatting is really bad shove or fold pre with these stacks what was the plan on any board basically?
 
spiderman637

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I suggest you to 3 bet preflop in that situation next time... 3 bet is much more effective than 2 bet here...Also i dont see any mistake in your game or the villians.
One thing what villian could have done is he should have shoved preflop in the guise of blind stealing as u said blind stealing was going on crazy at that time. Also be sure to back down post flop if the flop has a face card...
 
Poker Orifice

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I suggest you to 3 bet preflop in that situation next time... 3 bet is much more effective than 2 bet here...Also i dont see any mistake in your game or the villians.
The villain has already 3-bet here... so HERO has choice of 'call' 'raise (shove)' or 'fold'
 
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AvaloNNN

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It amazes me how many people think AA will win. In reality, if you shove AA preflop every time, it will only win 3 out of 10 times if it goes to a showdown. However, it usually wins more than that because of the fold equity it carries. Many times AA wins because everybody else folded.

LOL, what?
 
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alsplace1970

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I think this is an automatic call. And its a no brainer top set on the flop and an all in was his only move in this position , he had to protect losing with his aces with that move. And like you said he appeared tobe protecting the BB with his move. Nice Call and Nice Hand
 
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jgenest3798

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Best advice, turn off chat lol you were actually calling 16% of your stack (1800 with 11300 left) and the 3k was 24% of your starting stack. Theres a lot of read dependent information that goes into this call - and you said that you were reading a BB defending with the current play at the table - I don't think I would 4bet shove here - because I can fold to an unfavorable board on the flop (A, K, Q, etc). Also, 1800 to win 5k in a turbo is a pretty favorable position to me holding a pocket pair and assuming I know I will make the fold if I have to, if you think that you are committed regardless then maybe I would advise to fold. I say nice play.
 
khe0ps

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I'm so pissed of right now i want to smash something it's unbelievable some of the shit that is going on on Pokern00bstars and i don't want to be the type of guy that says poker is rigged but there are some retarded rewards for donks.
I'm in UTG with AA i raise 3x MP1 calls MP2 reraises all fold to me i shove MP1 fold MP2 calls (we had the same size stacks around 3k i think) he turns KJ suited floop comes with rag A of his suit rag turn 10 of his suit and river surprise surprise 2 of his suit making him a retarded flush. I'm just curious why does PS 75% of the time rewarding donk idiots?
 
Arjonius

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more important than the specific moves we make, is having a valid, logical reason WHY we make them....(and a plan if our decisions leave us with chips behind)

Can you tell us WHY you flatted his preflop re-raise?
^This^

In general, I'd say 4bet shoving is definitely preferable to either flatting or folding. However, it's more important to know what OP was thinking / not thinking about and/or weighting sub-optimally in order to make better decisions in similar spots in the future.
 
Arjonius

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I'm so pissed of right now i want to smash something it's unbelievable some of the shit that is going on on Pokern00bstars and i don't want to be the type of guy that says poker is rigged but there are some retarded rewards for donks.
I'm in UTG with AA i raise 3x MP1 calls MP2 reraises all fold to me i shove MP1 fold MP2 calls (we had the same size stacks around 3k i think) he turns KJ suited floop comes with rag A of his suit rag turn 10 of his suit and river surprise surprise 2 of his suit making him a retarded flush. I'm just curious why does PS 75% of the time rewarding donk idiots?
What's your point? Anyone who has played much poker has had their AA cracked hundreds if not thousands of times. And it's always by a worse starting hand (except for vs AA that makes a flush).

Also, how is it helpful to name-call an opponent who did exactly what you wanted him to do? Or to rail at the site?
 
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