MTT bubble play

How could I change my game appropriately to have a crack at top prize?

Im usually top 9 when I do good but always beat the bubble and place almost last in the money if that makes sense!


Any1 with information when deep in a MTT please help out!

I like to play it safe early on to avoid all the omg are you freakin serious hands (tho it happens all the time) then i will loosen up and steal blinds/antes if any and when needed but Im doing something totally wrong here so again any1 with help it would be greatly appreciated!

THANKS

Ah! The million dollar question -- how to survive the bubble without risk and then win the dang thing!

Well, I don't know. I often make it halfway with an average sized stack and then either bust before the bubble or shortly after. I know that I have to take more risks to get that big stack earlier, but I don't wanna, which often puts me in trouble right around the bubble. So, I think, unless I am willing to go for it, the whole way, I am going to continue to have a hard time making final tables. And I don't very often (in bigger tourneys). The times I have gone very deep on big tourneys, it's been partly luck -- my good hands held up. And I usually double up more than a few times after the bubble to get there, so that's more than a few showdowns to survive. They are always hairy.

So I'd like to know if there is an answer. There must be an answer -- some guys make it to a lot more final tables than most. How the heck do they do it?

So -- what size of tourneys are you talking about? I'd guess strategy is considerably different for a 10,000 person tourney (4 hours to the bubble, 8-15 hours total) than for a 50-100 person (3 hours+ total) one. A 500 person tourney (7-10 hours) may be different yet. Turbo adds yet another issue.

if its in the one table SnG's, then always 9th is just bad.
If we are talking MTT, well study and practice helps.

doops said:

Ah! The million dollar question -- how to survive the bubble without risk and then win the dang thing!


So -- what size of tourneys are you talking about? I'd guess strategy is considerably different for a 10,000 person tourney (4 hours to the bubble, 8-15 hours total) than for a 50-100 person (3 hours+ total) one. A 500 person tourney (7-10 hours) may be different yet. Turbo adds yet another issue.

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i would say a range from 3600-7500 players MTT


Is it safe to to sit out and take a break in a non TURBO tourney?
Maybe they are jus too darn long!

In order to get to that final table you have take some risks along the way. You can put yourself into a position where you minimize that risk to a certain extent, but you have to win a race or two...simple as that.

At all times you need to look for opportunities, minimize your risk by paying close attention to two very important factors: position and stack sizes. DO NOT play pots out of position. This is the fastest way you spew chips. Take advantage of the mid-sized or smaller (but not micro) stacks. Remember, they are looking to make the money too so grab these chips BEFORE the bubble and fatten your stack up when you can.

After the bubble--position, position, position! You have to be selectively aggressive and maximize your pots and don't be afraid to push any edge you may have in a hand. No guts, no glory. If you get it in good then you've played it right; after that it's all about winning a race or two which is inevitable in getting to the big cash.

davem86 said:

Is it safe to to sit out and take a break in a non TURBO tourney?
Maybe they are jus too darn long!

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It's "safe", of course, if you have a decent chipstack and do not miss either buttons nor LP (you really do not want to miss the best positions, do you?)-- but you just might miss that great hand that would have given you the chips you need to get far far far. So, really, plan on on being there and staying focussed the whole time. Yes, those bigger tourneys are long, and yes, it's hard. But you cannot play a tourney half-assed and realistically expect to win it.

I would recommend maybe not trying to play it so safe early. I mean don't play stupid but I like to take my chances in the early to mid stages so that when i reach the bubble and end I have a larger than average stack. If you are getting to the bubbles and don't have a large stack you are doing it wrong. It needs to be the other way around......I will bust a good amount of tournaments in the early stages, but the ones I don't i have large chip stacks going into the bubble and end stages that gives me a better chance at closing. So when I finally get there and close I more than make up for all the others I busted gambling for a stack in the early stages.

Should I continue my style of play throughout the tourneys and switch at the end or play around a bit without risking so many chips and then close out playing where im most comfortable? idk thanks to all who have replied so far! Any information helps...

Here's a way of looking at MTT that may (or may not!) help.

Think of a MTT as a satellite tournament. Suppose we are in a 1000 entrant $10 game and the bubble is at 200 people. If we survive until the last 200 we get our buy-in back (which is equivalent to a free ticket to the same MTT), plus some lose change, and entry to the new tournament that we can define as a 200 entrant $50 game. This is essentially what the bubble decision is. Of course, the difference between this and a true satellite is that the stacks are not equal going into the 'new' game. But with a bit of luck we are only a double up or two from being a real contender.

To be continued...

once again destroyed by late tournament miracles....am i waiting for the wrong hands? its almost as if i fold my way to the money or bust out every single time! its so sicknin..ah well its poker...another thing when i have a huge chip advantage should i play tough or let others play into me?

I think if you want to go deep in mtts you have to quit worrying about getting paid. It's those times when you have 15x bb and are 5 or 10 players away from cashing and you decide to take the safe route and just call a 3bet to see a flop instead of re-raising.At least it is my problem at times. There are times when your bankroll needs that cash so bad and it makes it hard to take the risk. I think this might be the biggest difference between players that get big top 3 finishes and ones who barely cash a lot. They are not scared to bubble and take their opportunities to stack up at risk of not cashing.

moeraj said:

I think if you want to go deep in mtts you have to quit worrying about getting paid. It's those times when you have 15x bb and are 5 or 10 players away from cashing and you decide to take the safe route and just call a 3bet to see a flop instead of re-raising.At least it is my problem at times. There are times when your bankroll needs that cash so bad and it makes it hard to take the risk. I think this might be the biggest difference between players that get big top 3 finishes and ones who barely cash a lot. They are not scared to bubble and take their opportunities to stack up at risk of not cashing.

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i think maybe that could be the problem, the money is good to win id rather have a win if that makes sense....

I play good hands and im usually the bigstack who doubles every shortstack up whos putting their chips in on 72o...

Should i consider folding hands like AK or 10's JJ's etc preflop to a 3 or 4bet?

idk something has to change and i try a different approach everytime and come up either short or just barely making the money

once again 769 players! 72 places paid and i place 55th... wth oh well i gotta get one sooner or later!

davem86 said:

once again 769 players! 72 places paid and i place 55th... wth oh well i gotta get one sooner or later!

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Hmmm. The question I have is how you busted, not so much when. If the last play you made was a reasonable one, a correct play, even if it didn't pan out, then it's OK.

I know it's unpleasant to bust out of a tourney but all but one player will. Only one person's luck and skill will hold up all the way through. It's a fact of tourney life, and it's best to accept it fully, trying not to hasten the end with poor play.

Getting in the money at all, remember, means that you did better than 90%+ of everyone playing. In that tourney, 714 players busted before you -- that means you are doing something right. The problem is that, getting that far, you start to envision yourself at the final table and get disappointed when you do not. Hours of playing and no substantial payoff. I know the feeling.

But I think it helps best, when playing, to put thoughts of the final table and the big cash aside and play each hand as it comes. I like to set mini goals-- I want to make it to the next level, which will inevitably involve some risk which I will limit by choosing hands and positions to play against players who might either fold or pay me off. Each level is a bit more, so if I don't make it, I have not "lost" as much.

Keep doing what you are doing, but survive a few more showdowns.

You can develop your skill in MTT play. But first lets have a lil chat about what skill is, IMO.

The skills you need to develop in MTT play are subjective, they dont even seem like something you can call a skill. Qualities such as patience, courage, awareness, focus, concentration, intuition, and calculated aggression can be developed. And you should focus on developing these skills.

The bubble is a crucial time to use these skills. Especially awareness and courage. you need to be aware of what the other players are doing: pay attention to hands they show down; how many hands they are playing. and then develop your courage to do what you have to do. If you have A2 (chit hand) in the BB and someone is raising almost every hand from late position and you just get the feeling that an ace is ahead of his range (intuition)-pick your ballz up and three bet shove. Hopefully he will fold or even better call as a dog and your edge holds.

And yes nola red hit the nail on the head: You will have to flip some coins and win some races to succeed in MTTs (theres no way around it). Is there anything you can do about your luck? Maybe. There are some famous authors who talk about the metaphysical aspect of creating your own reality: do you believe you are lucky? Do you believe you are a winner? do you believe you deserve to win $$$$$$$$$? Those can be worked on as well.

Hope this helps. GL and may your coinflipping be done with a double headed rigged coin.

its kinda hard when you have ppl who play such horrible cards and no matter how great my cards are that i play i almost always get stiffed on sum dummy who calls down half their chipstack preflop and hitting dumb hands that they should be folding...short stacked or not...Its kinda stupid because I wanna make a deposit but it seems like every other hand is a miracle...I lost count on how many players ive seen come back from 30 chips or less and win 10 str8 hands and then take down a 9 or 18 player sit-n-go....

Does anybody think i should make the deposit and say scew the freerolls?



$250 USA freeroll result-- 190th of 7500 and i was knocked out because I got pissed about a few hands

i.e A8o vs AJ
AA vs JJ...raised 6 times BB once again called over half their chips...i understand this call but damn move all in, but was playin solid poker the whole time...flop hit JQQ


idk CC members FTP is killin me here im thinkin of a deposit but im not so sure yet!

thanks guys every1 has helped me sumwhat so far and ive took bits and pieces from every1...hopefully i can turn this thing around and maybe post a few wins on here but once again thanks for all the info...ive learned so much here for the short period of time and damn am i glad i found this site...Still havent played in the FR but dangit im coming and lookout! once again thank you all1

davem86 said:

once again destroyed by late tournament miracles....am i waiting for the wrong hands? its almost as if i fold my way to the money or bust out every single time! its so sicknin..ah well its poker...another thing when i have a huge chip advantage should i play tough or let others play into me?

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Maybe you're waiting too much for premium hands in late stages. Play more suited connectors and small pairs in late stages!

woo hooo...finally i placed 37th of 6663 in a PL omaha Hi FR lastnight or this morning damn marathons , but thats like the dang lotto...twas fun but im still working on the cash game skills...keep the info coming its helping alot...I relate to this thread when im around the bubble area and some things stick out alot! thanks all

Playing all those freerolls really help my 1 table sng skills if thats what i should call them, but took the .90 cts i made above and won a few Daily $$ sattys and got $2+ risked it on a double duece satty and won of coarse and then listened to an idiot friend of mine who wanted to play another because he is a SORE LOSER...lol poker is great but the BR is crreping back....geeze what a drought!

davem86 said:

How could I change my game appropriately to have a crack at top prize?

Im usually top 9 when I do good but always beat the bubble and place almost last in the money if that makes sense!


Any1 with information when deep in a MTT please help out!

I like to play it safe early on to avoid all the omg are you freakin serious hands (tho it happens all the time) then i will loosen up and steal blinds/antes if any and when needed but Im doing something totally wrong here so again any1 with help it would be greatly appreciated!

THANKS

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I like to play tight if i'm shortstacked to get to the $$. If i'm a mid stack i will tend to steal against the players who are tighting up trying to make the money and if i'm a big stack then i'll be rambo and steal as much as possible from late position. Of course if it's a sat tourney then just play tight as possible.

tomh7795 said:

I like to play tight if i'm shortstacked to get to the $$. If i'm a mid stack i will tend to steal against the players who are tighting up trying to make the money and if i'm a big stack then i'll be rambo and steal as much as possible from late position. Of course if it's a sat tourney then just play tight as possible.

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i see said the blind man to the deaf cat...interesting info tho thank u!

I think once you make it through the bubble, you should start taking calculated risk because the huge payoff is until the top 5-6. The payout from let's say the 63rd spot (with 64 being the bubble of course) to the 10th spot is only like a 3-5 difference. You are better of getting your one dollar while risking to get a big stack than still playing tight and spending 4-5 hours of your day making 4 dollars. Good luck on your tournaments and avoiding the bubble.

the bubbles about to burst...FTP ID #149273186...come watch if you like! its the 5k sitnlearn i told you guys about!...wish me luck

davem86 said:

the bubbles about to burst...FTP ID #149273186...come watch if you like! its the 5k sitnlearn i told you guys about!...wish me luck

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Gl as I just busted out in 390pl. It's difficult to go deep when you've been on a long cooler. Not only that the AF after the bubble pops skyrocket's with the short stacks shoving and the mid stacks and some big stacks 3 betting to isolate. I still haven't figured out a way to the FT but a lot of the info here has helped me recognize a few leaks I had to fix. Thanks and as soon as I make a FT I will tell you how I did it. Gl!